House pushes for sweeping audit of the Fed

AP ^ | 9/25/09 | ANNE FLAHERTY

[Toddsterpatriot]

Who taught that?

Who taught me you couldn't understand? You, on this thread.

[Toddsterpatriot]

It is a private bank whose shares are owned by the largest commercial banks in the US.

What do the shares get them?

[Fingolfin]

What makes you think everyone can or wants to pay off all their debt?

They might not be able to or want to, but that doesn't mean we should base our monetary system on debt. This is because we all ride the economic roller-coaster caused by debt-money, and we all have to pay the taxes on the debt the government runs up for our "benefit".

[Toddsterpatriot]

This is because we all ride the economic roller-coaster caused by debt-money, and we all have to pay the taxes on the debt the government runs up for our "benefit".

Please explain the difference between the interest the government owes on $1 billion of fiat debt and the interest the government owes on $1 billion of gold debt.

[Fingolfin]

What do the shares get them?

The ability to elect members to their regional Federal Reserve board of directors. The ability of those members to set national monetary policy. The ability of those members to keep a steady stream of imaginary Fed created debt-money flowing to their banks.

[Ramius]

...Oxley/Sorbanes, to my recollection, was an attempt to cut down some on the ignorance defense. I will double check.

As somebody that's been intimately abused by Sarbanes/Oxley part 404 (AKA "the full employment for useless consultants act of 2002") in the IT industry for the last several years, I can offer many stories of wasted time and money over that time. SOX only "solved" the problem of too many American companies being too productive, and it fixed that with plenty of wasted man-hours and consulting fees, and endless paper-acres of documentation of things that nobody will ever read.

But beyond that, the Federal Reserve together with each of it's regional banks is already audited every year by an outside accounting firm (lately: Deloitte Touche) and the opinions and reports, with notes, are posted online for anybody to look at. I've looked at them. I still haven't heard from anybody what some other audit is supposed to reveal that their annual audit doesn't.

[Toddsterpatriot]

The ability of those members to keep a steady stream of imaginary Fed created debt-money flowing to their banks.

How does the Fed do that? How does the Fed get money to flow to the 1st National Bank of FR?

Please run thru the steps, if you can.

[takenoprisoner]

Who taught me you couldn't understand? You, on this thread.

You show up on nearly every thread discussing the audit. I have read most all of your bs reasons why we shouldn't audit the fed. Yea, I know you have claimed to have made money thanks to the fed. Well you are to be congratulated. But I lost half of my money in supposedly safe risk investments, and I want to see what is behind the iron curtain. Not everyone is as good as you. Some of us still have to make a living elsewhere relying on others to protect our investments. We all don't have the luxury and the knowledge you claim to have.

How bout this. If you are the brilliant investor you have claimed to be, how bout sharing with us all how we can recover our losses in quick order?

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yea, I know you have claimed to have made money thanks to the fed.

I don't remember claiming that. Are you sure?

But I lost half of my money in supposedly safe risk investments,

What is a safe risk investment?

I want to see what is behind the iron curtain.

If you get to see it, I'm sure you'll be disappointed.

We all don't have the luxury and the knowledge you claim to have.

Some of you are willing to learn and don't believe every stupid thing you see on a silly website or what you hear from an idiot Congressman.

If you are the brilliant investor you have claimed to be,

I don't remember claiming that. Are you sure?

how bout sharing with us all how we can recover our losses in quick order?

You need to buy at the bottom of the cycle and sell at the top.

[Fingolfin]

How does the Fed do that? How does the Fed get money to flow to the 1st National Bank of FR? Please run thru the steps, if you can.

1. U.S. Government sells bonds (debt).
2. Federal Reserve buys government bonds (debt) from dealers with money in creates for that purpose.
3. That money is deposited into a bank, adding it to our money supply. The 1st National Bank of FR may get it, or it may not.
4. If the 1st National Bank of FR got it, it can now create credit money up to 90% of that deposit as loans and collect interest on it.

Forgive me if I missed something, I am still learning.

[takenoprisoner]

Yes I am sure. Are you denying?

[Fingolfin]

I still haven't heard from anybody what some other audit is supposed to reveal that their annual audit doesn't.

The Federal Reserve's transactions with foreign central banks and governments are off limits.

[Ramius]

The Federal Reserve's transactions with foreign central banks and governments are off limits.

I think you just made that up.

[evandi]

It has the power of a government agency without the responsibilities. It not being part of the government is a technicality given the power and authority it has.

It is part of the government, it just isn’t officially part of the government. Or you could also say that the federal reserve program is a government program which comes to exactly the same result of it being an arm of the government. Its like if some dude out in Kansas was being given trillions of dollars to save our whole existence from demons and no one was allowed to check on whether or not he was spending the money coming up with special effects.

It is identical to having a bunch of government stooges behind closed doors spending trillions with no oversight. Same exact thing.

[Toddsterpatriot]

1. U.S. Government sells bonds (debt). 2. Federal Reserve buys government bonds (debt) from dealers with money in creates for that purpose.

So far so good. JPMorgan Chase, for instance, has $1 billion in T-Bills paying 0.2% and the Fed buys them. Now JPMC has $1 billion in cash, paying 0%, in their account at the Fed.

3. That money is deposited into a bank, adding it to our money supply. The 1st National Bank of FR may get it, or it may not.

It's already in the JPMC account at the Fed. So the FR bank gets nothing. And how does JPMC benefit from having to sell their bills to the Fed? I think they'd prefer the T-Bills.

4. If the 1st National Bank of FR got it, it can now create credit money up to 90% of that deposit as loans and collect interest on it.

JPMC could have sold their bills if they wanted to make a loan, they bought bonds instead.

Forgive me if I missed something, I am still learning.

You're doing okay so far.

[Ramius]

...how bout sharing with us all how we can recover our losses in quick order?

Buy low, sell high.

[Toddsterpatriot]

It just doesn't sound like something I would say. If you can find the link, that’d be great.

[Toddsterpatriot]

It is identical to having a bunch of government stooges behind closed doors spending trillions with no oversight.

The Federal Reserve doesn't spend trillions.

[Fingolfin]

I think you just made that up.

Check this out:
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/08/31/what-would-a-federal-reserve-audit-show/.

[evandi]

Part of its job is to expand or contract the money supply. Expanding the money supply is spending money.