Posted on 08/03/2009 3:20:26 AM PDT by Scanian
I have read thousands of posts like yours. Just tell us how you will accomplish this feat of liberation. Which states do you see as probable contenders for a Conservative comeback? What proportion of the populace do you want to count upon in a game without rules?
I totally resent being told I am clueless. Do you remember Waco and Ruby Ridge? Tell us how you reacted to the martial law imposed in Milwaukee in 1968. Do you really believe there is a chance in hell for a citizen's revolt at the state level?
Bombast and bluster and a keyboard will not accomplish a damned thing. Politics is the ultimate reality show and anyone who thinks they can just veer off and stage some sort of flank attack is, at best, a dreamer.
The Federal Government holds all the power. Every state trying to pass sovereignty laws or laws exempting their citizens from Federal drug, firearms,health insurance, voucher or vaccination regulations are now being held hostage to their Federal matching funds and block grants. They are all caving, AFAIK.
Every Federal and many State agencies now appear to have their own SWAT teams. For years, people with military experience have been speaking about various units being trained for domestic operations. We still have our guns and we still have elections (not that many of them are not corrupt) and we still have had a coup in this country that has consolidated real, physical power in the hands of the Fed, under the collectivist banner. Besides physical means of coercion, they have everyone's economic livelihood under their control, as well.
Just how do you want everyone to react to that? I guarantee there will be no pity, no mercy and precious little recognition of any rights in the event of a mass resistance carried out in any manner other than that of a regular, sanctioned election. Any other action is going to result in loss of freedom, loss of property and loss of life for anyone involved and a tightening of domestic security the likes of which have not been seen since the 1920s/1930s. Faced with any threat to themselves, family or their ability to pretend life can continue on under a veneer of normality, most people will put their heads down and slink into the shadows rather than stand up or fight.
The first step is to recognize the reality. Only then is it at all possible to craft a resistance that stands a half chance of success. And it is only a half chance. Resistors will find themselves non-persons, tout suite. The perimeter has been tightened by the Fed and the States to the point where we are little more than slaves and still, the majority will physically fight and destroy anyone who even dares mention that fact. One or even a few thousand people declaring that it is time to abandon rules and stop working within the system will disappear so fast, we will all begin to question if they ever existed.
I understand and empathize with your angst. But taking our country back has to be done in a cool-headed manner that can garner the support of such a majority that the oppressors will have to back off at every turn or risk being seen as the heavy-handed thugs they are by even their ardent supporters. Even then, I am not sure it will work in the near future, especially since our side lacks the organization of theirs.
We lost this fight 40 years ago. It is going to take a generation and a lot of publicly recognized over-reaching by our rulers before anyone really fights back in any meaningful manner. I will be either gone from this Earth or too ancient to be worth a damn by then, as will most of us. We have a slim chance in the midterms and then 18 months to prove we have some answers before the next general election. About all I personally think could happen positively is that we change Congress to put zerO and the donks into gridlock. Trust me, raging at the victims is not not a successful organizing tool.
=)
Your reply was a “campaign poster” for my argument and did more to highlight the reasons focus and effort should be shifted to the states than anything I wrote in mine. I guess thanks are in order. ;)
The “weakness” you see in the people is exactly the weakness we need to address. That is addressed by purging those that inflict confusion and doubt within the cause. Those people who currently “slink into the shadows” can be encouraged to become part of the “resistance” if they believe there IS a “resistance”. We are not asking them to fight and kill, we are asking them to support our efforts to get “right wing extremists” elected to state offices in such numbers that we can start REAL efforts to disconnect the citizens of that state from the abuses and tyranny of the marxist fedgov.
We can manage this feat in at least a few Southern and Midwest states because a majority of the population agrees with us on a fundamental level. They are only missing the organization and the courage that such organization provides. You said yourself youve seen “thousands” of posts such as mine... The anger is real.. The resolve to do something is real... the ONLY thing missing is the organization to bring them together to “fight” for a cause. They only “slink” away if they believe they are alone...
Its all about getting enough folks that think like us in charge of a state or two (to start with). Setting the people in that state free from the abuses of the fedgov is an “easy” prospect. The hard part is making it stick, but it CAN be done with a coordinated effort.
I REFUSE to believe that slavery is the fate of the people who choose to be free.
No....actually, it is because that Voinovich is a holdover from the old GOP. Most Southern Republicans were Democrats 20-30 years ago.
I actually think Voinovich could run a compelling campaign and given his executive experience would be a great counterweight to Obama but his whole “bashing the South” phase will knock him down a few points
And as for Barbour. People seem to forget that
1. Barbour is actually a moderate conservative socially. He holds the positions but he doesn’t scare people off with his rhetoric
2. Very competent governor. Did a very good job with Katrina (and as a sidebar, everyone who worked with Barbour’s office after Katrina loved doing so)
3. He has a detailed knowledge of every district in the country and of many precincts in the country. That is the kind of knowledge you need if you’re going to win the White House.
Voinovich has always been on the edges but now he has crossed over to full-on RINO.
This guy’s grasp on GOP party history is quite poor and reflects typical stereotypes, media revisionism, and outright falsehoods and glaring omissions. So much nonsense I don’t know where to begin to correct it all... Dixiecrats all becoming Republicans ? What ? Conservatives have been opposing the liberal Eastern Establishment long before the 1960s, and that has zilch to do with Southerners. Northerners, like Robert Taft, Sr., were fighting the battle before Southerners had joined the party. With all the bitching from Voinovich lately, he should study up on history, too, especially on people from his own state, within his own lifetime, who were bedrock Conservatives fighting the good fight.
Most of these admitted bigots.....Voin, Noonan, Spector, Frum, Brooks, Powell, Schmidt, Parker, etc., agitated for Hussein election or voted for him anyway.
Who needs them?
It seems to me that the folks who “purged” you did fairly well with their agenda... This argument does nothing to further the idea that your idea of supporting socialist of a different flavor is the way to go to actually get rid of socialists.
Everything starts somewhere does it not? The will is there. The anger and resentment are there. The desire for freedom is still there and strong among certain populations. The more agitated “conservatives” become the more willing they will be to step “outside” their normal lives. The “mood” is not quite to the point of “resistance” but it is close. Diffusing the anger and frustration people feel towards the fedgov is the LAST thing we should do. Instead, we should be feeding it and nurturing it. The worse it gets (or people perceive its getting) the more willing they will be to take “extreme” measures to fix it.
I see the whole “support your local GOP socialist” thing... as a sedative. It gives false hope for future gains that never materialize, but the gains are always said to be in the future so successive generations keep pushing on with the same failing agenda and “fighting” for those future gains. and so on... and so on... and so on... Meanwhile the marxists continue to consolidate power, indoctrinate more and more people into their fantasy and convince more and more folks that its pointless to resist. Your method is a lullaby.
I agree with you that leaders emerge. They emerge when they are needed and when the conditions are right. Its up to us to get it to that point. Its up to us to escalate the agitation among our population, get people to believe that they can no longer duck and cover or even slink away. Ratchet up the fear and anger and make people understand that there is nowhere left to run and hide. Leaders will emerge because the feeling of danger will be real. You want a leader? well.. You gotta make em step up.
Your description of a community organizer is spot on, at least for the Chicago area, but its not the method that will be the avenue of OUR success. It works for socialists because they are selling “services” to the people of the areas they target. They are garnering favors and support by doing any number of tasks for those individuals. That method is tailored for socialists and does not work for anything other. The way you get free people to step up and take action is to make them realize that they are either in danger of losing their freedom or are already slaves with little to no recourse. Basically they need to feel PERSONALLY threatened by the fedgov.
Anger... Righteous anger.. thats what we are cultivating... That is the fuel that will drive us, but it doesn’t last forever so whatever we do with it has to be quick, decisive and if possible lend to the generation of more righteous anger, until we get to the point where we win.
As far as bringing folks together (religious conservatives, fiscal conservatives, freedom conservatives, libertarians, etc) fear is a great motivator to bring people together against what they perceive to be a common danger. All these people share the same foundational beliefs and a sense of urgency will allow them to forget about the minor differences and work together for “survival”.
What all this boils down to is that we can not offer folks a false hope and way out. They have to understand that “this is it” they need to feel threatened by the marxists and the fedgov in a very personal way. You start talking about accepting RINO’s and “long term solutions” (read, no solutions just flase hope) and such does nothing but defuse that anger and get people stuck in the same rut that got em to the brink of full on marxism in the first place.
“The GOP is not a group, it’s a party”
Well to be honest, it’s half a party.
“We need to be practical, this time.”
That is what we were told in the last election and we got that old turncoat bastard McCain.
Perhaps we got McCain because everyone on our side had a different favorite and they all fought with each other until all their candidates were eliminated.
Yes, McCain is liberal. But he doesn’t hate America. He doesn’t have a grudge against white people. He isn’t anti-Christian. He would not have alienated our allies nor allied with our nation’s enemies. He would not have taken over entire sectors of the economy. He would not be acting with the backing of hundreds of thousands of trained thugs. He would not have brought terrorist detainees to the USA.
We ran conservatives in several primaries in 2006, too and they lost to the progressive or the fake conservative with a D after their name. So we lost the congress in 2006 and the presidency in 2008. And our country in 2009.
And, if we do the same thing this next time, we will lose again. And we can be slaves to the minority for as long as it takes to become realists who act with practicality.
YMMV
The GOP is not a party, it's a suicide club.
F—k McCain, and F—k every other socialist POS that ever existed.
How many ways do I need to say this?
I WANT MY DAMN FREEDOM BACK!!! NOT TOMORROW OR POSSIBLY 25 YEARS FROM NOW... TODAY!!!
I can guarantee you that supporting socialists like McCain will NEVER get us our freedom back. NEVER. However it will give the Marxists more time to indoctrinate and push their agenda through their more “moderate” socialist lackeys.
Freedom is not something you get back incrementally!! You have to f-—ing TAKE IT! and all through history its only been done at the point of a sword or the muzzle of a gun.
You are right about one thing... We WILL continue to lose elections in specific areas for one reason. The stupid m’er F’ers only vote for socialist / marxist candidates now. The very real danger is, that is spreading as the government indoctrination centers (schools) and the PR wing (media) continue to get their claws into successive generations. There WILL come a time when you wont be able to elect a real “conservative” even in Texas or Oklahoma. That is if we follow the advice of people who council restraint and compromise.
I have no f-—ing idea why you cant or refuse to see the reality of this.
Our ONLY way out of this is to push events to the extreme. We are not going to get our freedom back without effort or risk. We ARE going to have to confront the marxists in the fedgov head on, and we will do so from the perspective of sovereign states. We can make them react to us. We can direct the “skirmishes” in the areas we want to target. You can already see the beginning of this with states passing laws in direct contradiction to fedgov mandates. The only thing that is needed is getting the right people into those states who have the backbone to follow through with those to the ultimate conclusion. Either the fedgov backs down, or we get them to fire the first shot, but either way, we just keep pushing and prepare for whatever the fedgov can throw at us.
“They tell us, sir, that we are weak — unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance, by lying supinely on our backs, and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot?”
The dilemma today is the same as it was then... Submit to abject slavery or risk everything and fully engage in the “animating contest for freedom”. The stakes today are no less than they were then. The only question left to answer is whether the passage time and the efforts of the left have castrated the men of this nation.
Here is what I have been saying and what has not been addressed in your posts:
How do you elect conservatives when the electorate rejects them, time and again, including closed primaries?
In addition:
Since you are so incensed about the loss of _your_ freedom, what have you done to date to get it back? Why do you think that you can expect that it is possible to force others to act to take their own freedoms back?
IMO, as more people directly confront the reality of socialism/fascism, more of them _will_ vote against it. However, the entire problem is that incrementalism worked for the Left and therefore, we cannot trust either the mass of electorate or the procedure of the vote. Add to this that we now have rulers instead of representative leaders. They do not pay any attention to our complaints and instead go to great lengths to marginalize us.
Yesterday you stated you were not asking people to fight or kill the oppressors and today you state:” You have to f-—ing TAKE IT! and all through history its only been done at the point of a sword or the muzzle of a gun.” I have asked you how this is to be accomplished when the coup already took place while we still have arms?
>>> “How do you elect conservatives when the electorate rejects them, time and again, including closed primaries?”
You elect them where you can, and in greater numbers in specific states. Please, forget about Pennsylvania, New York, California, etc... There are states where it CAN be done if enough effort is out into it.
>>>”Since you are so incensed about the loss of _your_ freedom, what have you done to date to get it back? Why do you think that you can expect that it is possible to force others to act to take their own freedoms back?”
Force? no.. Convince, and agitate them to that point? yes. This also answers what I’m doing to get it back. When it is time for more I will be one of the first volunteers. What are YOU doing?
>>> “IMO, as more people directly confront the reality of socialism/fascism, more of them _will_ vote against it. However, the entire problem is that incrementalism worked for the Left and therefore, we cannot trust either the mass of electorate or the procedure of the vote. Add to this that we now have rulers instead of representative leaders. They do not pay any attention to our complaints and instead go to great lengths to marginalize us.”
With this you basically stated that people will vote against socialism once they learn more about it, but that it wont matter because we now have rulers instead of servants. OK... Very little I disagree with there. In fact it amplifies my argument. thanks?
>>>”Yesterday you stated you were not asking people to fight or kill the oppressors and today you state:” You have to f-—ing TAKE IT! and all through history its only been done at the point of a sword or the muzzle of a gun.” I have asked you how this is to be accomplished when the coup already took place while we still have arms?”
The point of my statement was that NEVER in the course of history has freedom ever been won incrementally. Tyrants do not give up power that easily. Marxists NEVER go quietly. We ARE going to have to push this to the limit, and we are going to need to be prepared to defend ourselves. But we should NOT fire the first shot, not when we can EASILY induce the marxists into making that mistake.
We keep everything peaceful and simply insist upon practicing our freedom and ignoring the fedgov. We will pass laws shielding our citizens from every single overstep and usurpation the fedgov has ever inflicted upon the people of this nation. We will do so with the full power and authority of the state, and we will simply go on.
...Until the marxists in the fedgov either decide to back off (not likely), or use force. we just need to be prepared for that use of force and not shrink from it...
>>> “Who is *we*? Your home page says you live in the same state I do: Wisconsin. There will be no such laws in Wisconsin, even if by some chance Scott Walker wins the primary and the General Election. Our local Assembly and State Senate representatives are conservative (in a District that elects Kohl, Finegold, Doyle and Kind....go figure)and one, Kapanke, is taking on Kind for the House seat. He may actually have a chance. But here inside the state of Wisconsin, there are more takers than producers and I am not optimistic.”
I grew up in Texas, and I will move back there to support a legitimate effort to make this happen. In fact, Ill pick up and go to any state that has the citizens with the fortitude to commit to this.
Wisconsin suffers from its proximity to Chicago. Its a pretty state but Ill be happy to move away from it.
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