Posted on 07/25/2009 11:40:35 PM PDT by rabscuttle385
The claim was made in a periodical for servicemen and I stated what its claims were; or at least that's how I've since portrayed it. I read what I read. I also served...for a decade. Have you served?
Since the conservative movement is primarily a social conservative/religious people voter movement, your type is the anti-social conservative minority that still chooses to vote with social conservatives instead of the democrat party like most of your type do.
Inwardly, I am socially conservative. However, I do recognize that my personal views do not always make for good legislation and therefore I do not advocate for much legislation that seeks to limit liberties. You get this, correct? If I am a minority among conservatives, I am in very good company: a very large portion of my political/ideological views are reflected by The Club for Growth.
Club for Growth is a national network of thousands of Americans, from all walks of life, who believe that prosperity and opportunity come through economic freedom. We work to promote public policies that promote economic growth primarily through legislative involvement, issue advocacy, research, training and educational activity.The primary tactic of the separate Club for Growth PAC is to provide financial support from Club members to viable pro-growth candidates to Congress.
Club for Growth Policy Goals:
◦Making the Bush tax cuts permanent
◦Death tax repeal
◦Cutting and limiting government spending
◦Social Security reform with personal retirement accounts
◦Expanding free trade
◦Legal reform to end abusive lawsuits
◦Replacing the current tax code
◦School choice
◦Regulatory reform and deregulation
Some conservatives (perhaps a minority, as you suggest) don't care nearly enough about the social issues as we do the economic/fiscal issues. I'm probably futher away from the Democrats' platform of so-called progressivism, than many SoCons are.
In some cases, I think you’re right — I know plenty of socons who are also for small government and a strong defense.
However, what I’m saying is that a number of socons, including folks right here on FR are for “solving” a wide variety of social problems at the federal level — e.g., drug addiction, pornography, gambling, etc. Federal solutions to problems like these are not fundamentally conservative, IMO, because they are not fundamentally Constitutional.
So do I. The problem is, our various factions cannot agree on even a bare-bones, common definition of what’s conservative.
And I would add, a number of defense hawks are for things like national ID cards, etc. — also not fundamentally conservative and Constitutional, IMO.
Of course it is a minority, look at the voter categories in posts 13 and 19, who are you voting with on those charts, I'll bet that you find yourself voting with the socon evangelicals, but where are most of the anti socons in those charts, they are voting democrat by huge margins.
You still have to show us that the military is massively homosexual. One out of twelve GIs are not homosexual as you believe.
Let's test. How many SoCons would accept this short list below to their own ideological/political positions:
• Put the individual first and allow people to decide for themselves what is best for their own well-being and that of their families[in regards to economic liberty];
• Recognize that the free market is the only reliable predictor of the real prices of goods, labor, and capital;
• Use government to shape a fair and secure environment, protect private property and the value of money, enforce contracts, and promote competition, but not to produce or sell goods and services; and
• Emphasize openness to international trade and investment as the surest paths to increased productivity and economic growth. A government that limits its involvement in economic activity consistent with these principles maximizes opportunities for individuals to reach their full economic potential and promotes the greatest levels of prosperity and human well-being for society as a whole.
Do you read for understanding? And do you have some kind of aversion to answering point-blank questions the first and second times they’re asked?
Plenty? Those are part of the socon agenda and they vote accordingly, it is the none socons that keep trying to push out portions of conservatism.
Socons are not the only folks who traditionally support republicans in wide margins. Libertarians have historically overwhelmingly voted GOP. From a 2006 analysis of the 2000 and 2004 elections:
“For those on the trail of the elusive swing voter, it may be most notable that the libertarian vote shifted sharply in 2004. Libertarians preferred George W. Bush over Al Gore by 72 to 20 percent, but Bush’s margin dropped in 2004 to 59-38 over liberal John Kerry. Congressional voting showed a similar swing from 2002 to 2004. Libertarians apparently became disillusioned with Republican overspending, social intolerance, civil liberties infringements, and the floundering war in Iraq. If that trend continues into 2006 and 2008, Republicans will lose elections they would otherwise win.”
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/html/pa580/pa580index.html
So, I take it that you have not served in one of the branches of the armed services, correct? And I also take it that you have a citation somewhere that the armed services had less than an 8% homosexual population in the mid-to-late 90s, right?
I don’t agree. Look at any thread here on FR, and you’ll see socons advocating federal government “solutions” to problems such as drug abuse, gambling, pornography, etc.
Do you consider these people RINOs, or not true socons?
Instead of getting off into philosophy and minutia, why not keep it in the real world, politics and elections.
“As the Republican Party looks to the future, a principal challenge will be to find ways to attract minority voters. Polls show black and Hispanic voters are significantly more religious, pro-life and supportive of traditional marriage than the general electorate. All three of last year’s state marriage amendments passed with decisive help from minority voters, underscoring that conservative positions on social issues will help Republicans as they court these voters.
The Republican Party’s recent woes are a result not of an America that no longer appreciates conservative principles, but of a party that failed to live up to the vows it made to the nation 30 years ago. But there are reasons for hope.”
You are going to have to be more specific, just naming straw dogs won’t work, what is the gambling issue that is at stake?
Well, that's problematic. Because in 'my real world' there are very few politicians that I trust to promote liberty. In fact, with very little exception, politicians are more likely to try and meddle and reduce liberty through their legislative actions. Therefefore, I view politicians as the minutia and the philosophical/ideological as what should be favore in 'the real world'.
And those groups you mention in your quoted material: how likely is it that they support economic liberty? Or is it safe to say that those groups, in general, favor collective, redistributionary policies?
Like you'll answer the question the question(s) the first or second time they're asked, anyhow.
If you can’t back up your absurd claim that the military is 8% homosexual then don’t make the ridiculous claim.
When people start asking for veteran status it is usually a sign of desperation, especially on a thread where it isn’t relevant, I don’t know what experiences that you had in the military that lead you to believe that it is a hot bed of homosexuality but it isn’t, and that is why you cannot provide evidence for your silly claim.
In 2004 56% of Protestant Hispanics voted republican. The non socons of the white population voted democrat of course.
BTTT!
I appreciate this discussion, ansell2 — thank you.
One example: the federal ban on internet gambling, in which illegal online gambling was so ill-defined that both Vermont and North Dakota have had intrastate credit card lotteries blocked.
An even clearer violation, IMO: federal bans on marijuana (even if it’s in one’s backyard, for personal use.
Socons, like other groups, are not a homogeneous bunch, of course — but do you consider support of federal drug laws (applied to intrastate issues) a social conservative position?
whoopee, how many people is that?
I know that actual registered members of the libertarian party isn’t even 226,000, Cato is trying to make a case that libertarian voters are the same size as the black vote and that they voted 59% republican in 2004, again, big deal.
Every little bit helps supplement the socon vote though and if they want to keep supporting socon economic policies fine, but really the Hispanic vote is more important right now.
I wonder how many of those people know that they are now libertarians according to Cato?
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