Posted on 07/21/2009 4:18:24 PM PDT by patriotgal1787
“So, if every serviceman joins in Major Cook’s endeavor, he will get sent to military prison if the long form proves Obama eligible?”
No, because they are mutineers since Obama’s status really has little or nothing to do with the validity of orders to deploy, as xzins has pointed out. They might even get shot for their trouble if they try to pull this in a war zone. The issue for FR, however, is whether or not FReepers are violating or conspiring to violate 18 USC 2388 and whether or not this web site itself is a conspirator or accomplice in that. Frankly, I am very surprised that a conservative forum, a forum certainly not noted for trying to disrupt the military, would provide a platform for the encouragement of actions which could ultimately lead to the death of service members and even our defeat in war.
I didn’t reserve the right to obey only those commanders or Presidents I liked.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Would you turn your rife on American citizens and kill them because a president told you to do this? ( just wondering)
At what point would a president become illegitimate for you?
At what point would an order be illegitimate?
I would hope that you loyalty is to the Constitution, not the president.
I don’t engage in hypothetical opinions.
There will be no "standing down." That is a pipe dream. It is also entirely out of sync with the UCMJ for soldiers to base their decisions to obey orders on their personal notions of the validity of a president's birth certificate. Meanwhile, that BC has NOT been questioned by either their congress or their supreme court, AND in reading the U.S. Constitution one does not find a provision requiring a birth certificate, nor does it appoint a particular office tasked with reviewing them.
Lest we forget, there were no birth certificates at all when the US Constitution was penned.
All of this is NOT to say that I don't want to see BO's real birth certificate. I do. I do not think, though, that endangering soldiers in the field or risking the legal status of those not deployed to war is any way to get BO to reveal his BC.
The only way to FORCE such a thing is through the courts. And so far, they don't appear inclined to get involved.
That would fall under the heading of an illegal order. If a member of the military is given what is a patently illegal order, then that order must be refused.
There is, of course, the issue of context. The American President from 1861-1865 did give orders to fire on American citizens....given that Lincoln rejected the legality of any secession, he still considered the Confederates to be US citizens.
We don't have anything like a Civil War going on now, so any president giving such an order would have to dream up a really weird scenario to lend his order some validity.
Not automatically under the Insurrection Act, 10 USC 333. This was actually utilized in the aftermath of the LA riots. Active duty servicemen were deployed to Los Angeles to put down the riots.
The difficulty would always be dintinguishing between a peaceful political assembly, an agitated political demonstration, and a riot.
Kent State
Not to fault the troops, but instead to fault their leadership.
“Precisely, you don’t send untrained Nat’l Guard into a tough demonstration with live rounds. A well-trained group could have handled that with shields, sticks, and tear gas.”
Exactly, which of course demonstrates the importance of discipline both in the ranks and among the officer corps.
****There will be no “standing down.” That is a pipe dream****
That is what I told you earlier.
In the moves to get Obama to reveal his certificate, Constitutionalists must take the US military off the board, so far as available pawns are concerned. We simply shouldn’t mess with them.
What’s that leave?
Keeping the issue alive.
Ultimately, getting co-sponsors to the House bill requiring certification of natural born citizenship is the most important thing that I see going. Who could be against that? (Although they are...scares them to death.)
The Constitution calls for it. Let’s enforce it by providing an enforcement mechanism that accomplishes the Constitutional requirement. That way it will never happen again in the future.
****In the moves to get Obama to reveal his certificate, Constitutionalists must take the US military off the board, so far as available pawns are concerned. We simply shouldn’t mess with them.****
We may continue to disagree on that.
****Ultimately, getting co-sponsors to the House bill requiring certification of natural born citizenship is the most important thing that I see going. Who could be against that? (Although they are...scares them to death.)
The Constitution calls for it. Let’s enforce it by providing an enforcement mechanism that accomplishes the Constitutional requirement. That way it will never happen again in the future.****
I agree that it is imperative that we get the enforcement mechanism in place, and I would like to see it in place before the next Presidential election.
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