Posted on 07/16/2009 7:33:10 AM PDT by DogBarkTree
Thank you for the well considered and tempered response. You are right, my daughters never knew. Women tend to deal with this sort of thing, emotionally, on a different level than men. We are just wired differently - generally speaking.
The only time I ever killed an animal for pleasure was in 5th grade I killed a robin with a bb gun. It was very traumatic for me, believe it or not. I think a lot of little boys go through the same experience and come out more respectful of animals as a natural resource. I agree with your comment about God putting us here to rule over his domain.
If one passes through puberty and adulthood and continues to take pleasure in torturing animals, they have not properly matured, although some just take longer than others. I think they are wrong, but I really don’t think the government should come between them and their cruelty to animals unless the animals are not their property or they are doing it in an offensive way - slaughtering a deer on their front lawn for example.
Regarding my kitten thing: it repulsed me at the time, but it had to be done. I bit the bullet and did it. The hardest part was inspecting to make sure they were all dead.
I’ve read some of your comments, and at the same time try to ignore or not think about them. You have successfully distracted many if not all of us from the topic of this thread. Are you trying to insinuate that the girl who baked the cat is no worse than you?
Why didn’t you use bullets rather than bite one?
I did not mean to distract. Sorry about that. Seriously. I was just wrapped up in responding to other’s responses to me.
Regarding your question: Are you trying to insinuate that the girl who baked the cat is no worse than you?
No, I don’t consider ANY person worse or better than me - with the exception of the one perfect person that ever lived: Jesus.
That said, I think she has some serious maturing to do and I would not want my girls hanging around her. She may even be somewhat mentally disturbed. But I believe all people are mentally imperfect just as all people are physically imperfect. But her imperfection is a serious problem.
And to be clear, her problem has nothing to do with animal abuse. That is merely the outward symptom. The root seems to be that she cannot control her anger and is so narcissistic as to completely ignore how her actions may affect other people emotionally. She must have very low stress however, since stress is defined as “controlling the urge to chock the living sh!! out of someone that desperately deserves it.”
She seems to have no self control whatsoever. That goes far beyond the “cruelty to animals” issue.
>>Interesting moral study.<<
BTW, I like that choice of words. That is literally how I view these threads. It is extremely interesting to ask others AND myself questions about this, the answers to which often break old paradigms. I have changed and solidified my position on this “animal rights” stuff based on both my own questions as well as my, and other posters, responses to those questions.
It is amazing how many things “everybody knows” but when you drill down with the right questions it turns out that what everybody knows is actually a dead wrong assumption.
I also like to watch John Stossel on Youtube. :)
>>Why didn’t you use bullets rather than bite one?<<
Two reasons: I didn’t have a gun and it would have made too much noise in a suburban neighborhood.
Otherwise I would have.
I agree with you in part. There is no doubt that she is deeply disturbed, and the kitten was as a result of her rage. She has no guilt or remorse. if she’s not psychotic, or sociopathic... She’s in dire need of long term analysis and corrective treatment.
The real problem is that there are a LOT of people like her in the inner city. For her it’s cats. For others it’s peoples physical property or even people. This issue is far broader than what she did to a cat as much as the problem with the USSR was far more than just what Stalin did to the Jews.
I won’t say whether it’s an inner city problem or not. There are out of control people in the suburbs and country too. Crazy stories like this one are not isolated to innercities. (Ie: stories of boys pouring gasoline on cats and then setting them on fire).
I agree. It is just that it is more pervasive in some areas/communities/cultures than others.
For example, the lack of a propotionate number of Jews in our prison population is striking. No, I am not Jewish. There is some reason for that. I assume it is the way their family system works.
Affirmitive action pretty much destroyed the family in inner cities.
Stuffing kittens in a bag and randomly beating them with a bat - not knowing what part of what kitten you’re beating - presumably crushing ribs, breaking legs, etc., prior to death, is NOT humane. I have zero problem killing animals when it is done humanely which means quickly with minimal-to-no suffering.
And seriously, don’t compare killing kittens to killing food animals, unless you dressed and butchered these kittens and later made a stew to feed your family.
Further, lazy and cowardly are two adjectives that are similar in your situation. You were too lazy to deal with the cats prior to leaving: too lazy to call someone to take the cats, too lazy to put a .22 through each kitten’s brain, too lazy to drop them off at the “dog pound” (I use that phrase since this was allegedly decades ago)...in other words, you were too lazy and cowardly to properly deal with the animals, so you stuck them in a bag and randomly beat them. Why a bag? Why not take each kitten and quickly kill it properly? Afraid to see what you were doing? Afraid to make a mess?
Were they your kittens? Did the kittens just appear one day? Actually my questions don’t matter, partly because it was so long ago, and partly because where you got them doesn’t justify how they were killed.
You need to understand that I know where my food comes from and I know the difference between the dreadful habit of some who “humanize” animals vs. reality. And while I have a high tolerance for dispatching animals because that’s the way of the world, there is a right and a wrong way to do it. You chose the wrong way.
>>You were too lazy to deal with the cats prior to leaving: too lazy to call someone to take the cats, too lazy to put a .22 through each kitten’s brain, too lazy to drop them off at the “dog pound” (I use that phrase since this was allegedly decades ago)...in other words, you were too lazy and cowardly to properly deal with the animals, so you stuck them in a bag and randomly beat them. Why a bag? Why not take each kitten and quickly kill it properly? Afraid to see what you were doing? Afraid to make a mess?<<
You are actually partially right. I could have spent a lot more time and effort on this. I had other priorities though. One man’s “lazy” is another man’s “focused on higher priorities”.
I was not sitting on the curb drinking Night Train out of a paper bag instead of planning the cat’s demise. :)
Different people have different sensibilities on this sort of thing. Fortunately, the law does not back it up - usually.
I am moving to an area where people understand animals. There are darned few laws about what you do to your own animals/property. One guy I know there had a few hunting dogs and a 6 month old puppy snapped at him. Because he has a newborn baby he IMMEDIATELY took the dog to the back of the property, put a bullet in it’s head, and threw the body off the hill for the turkey buzzards.
I divide creation into two groups:
1. Man
2. Natural resource.
The Bible is very clear on how to respond to both and the rules are dramatically different for each.
When this economic mess falls out and life becomes a struggle for more and more people, there will be less and less concern for the welfare of animals and people can, again, focus on helping their fellow man, not getting fluffy groomed “just right”.
>>You chose the wrong way.<<
That’s your opinion, and I will strongly defend your right to hold it, but I disagree.
>>Why a bag? Why not take each kitten and quickly kill it properly? Afraid to see what you were doing? Afraid to make a mess?<<
I wanted it to be neat and clean. No mess.
“Properly” is a very subjective word. I think I did do it properly. If I had it to do today I would probably do it the same way because I live in a suburb. When I move to Kentucky and if I were to have the same situation, I might use a shotgun, but it seems pretty extreme when the bat thing works just as well.
Kittens are cute, but their brains just ain’t that big.
That's funny, My parents, grandparents, aunts, and uncles were around before 1942, when Bambi came out, and they all were extremely kind to animals. They came from the rural South where life was hard, so you can't say that they were products of a soft urbanized society. Nevertheless, they never allowed their hard lives to strip them of their humanity. My Dad grew up poor on a farm during the depression, dropped out of school to go to work and became a combat infantryman during WWII. He was an extremely strong and tough man, both mentally and physically. Yet, he always treated people and animals with kindness. He always hated to see living creatures hurt, and he especially loved cats. He would have been disgusted by what you did to those kittens.
>>That’s funny, My parents, grandparents, aunts, and uncles were around before 1942, when Bambi came out, and they all were extremely kind to animals.<<
Yes. What I am talking about is people’s attitudes towards how OTHER people treat their animals. They may have disaproved, but in an “it’s none of my business” sort of way. Kinda like a “Joe sure doesn’t take very good care of his tractor” sort of thing. It didn’t rise to the level of concern it has since people started watching movies with talking animals.
Also, I draw a huge distinction between animal welfare and animal rights.
>>He always hated to see living creatures hurt, and he especially loved cats.<<
That is unusual. Every single farmer I have ever known (and that is a lot), saw/sees cats as working animals on the farm. They got rid of mice, etc. and are otherwise a nuisance.
Your father really was unusual in his attitude.
You have a point, but check the Bible verse in post #50. Man does have dominion over animals but I don't believe God intends for people to rule over animals with detached indifference and callousness. It doesn't always have to be an either/or situation with regard to Man's relationship with animals; the fact that Man is the superior being does not require that the welfare of animals should be of no concern. Sometimes we do have to do unpleasant things to animals, but they should be done on the on the basis of need and necessity, not mere convenience. Also, while animals may be a sort of a "natural resource," I'd say there's a difference between a cat or a dog, and a tree or a mineral. A lump of coal doesn't feel pain when you burn it.
Working cats (and dogs) may be viewed as nuisances, but if you're disposed to like animals, they can be more than mere farm implements.
Your father really was unusual in his attitude.
He may have been unusual, but that's the way he was. My Mom once told me that that was one of his most attractive qualities, his innate kindness. I wish more people could understand that concern for animals is not a metrosexual quality. I hope my bragging on my father isn't obnoxious, but I wish more people would follow his humane example.
I actually agree with you. If I were truly callous regarding the kittens, I would have had no qualms about what I was doing at all. But in my mind they are WAY below human in significance. I have said that I think the bible tells you to take care of your animals in the same way that if it were written today it would say to keep the oil changed and tire pressure checked in your car.
We are supposed to responsibly manage that for which we are responsible. That means not killing cats just for the fun of it or, for that matter, kicking over anthills just for the fun of it.
>>Also, while animals may be a sort of a “natural resource,” I’d say there’s a difference between a cat or a dog, and a tree or a mineral. A lump of coal doesn’t feel pain when you burn it.<<
I agree. Different resources should be treated differently. It is only natural to be sensitive to the feelings of animals because they seem to mimic ours to one degree or another, though we often missinterpret their motive - crocodile tears being an excellent example.
They don’t think like us. They just appear to.
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