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The Myth of Ever Increasing Fuel Economy
American Thinker ^ | May 23, 2009 | R.H. Higgs

Posted on 05/22/2009 10:41:30 PM PDT by neverdem

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To: WVKayaker

We’ve only been to Pocono multiple times. Last time was in ‘07 and it rained, no fun at all! After the third downpour we called it quits and then of course the sun came out on our ride home to NJ, and the race did go to the finish.

We went near the track last summer, the July race, just to buy some shirts at the places along the roadway heading for the track. Again it started raining but the race was able to finish later.

Yes, Dover is cool, never been though. My daughter and her husband and a friend went a couple of years back. They sat way at the top and loved the view!

Nice, a motorhome, that’s our dream to do that, drive to races in one of those! We just bought our first home moving here to PA, only took us 30 yrs. to do it, so the motorhome will have to wait for now, lol! We’d like to look into renting one some time, they are awesome inside!


61 posted on 05/23/2009 4:10:15 AM PDT by tina07 (In loving memory of my father,WWII Vet. CBI 10/16/42-12/17/45, d. 11/1/85 -Happy B'day Daddy 2/20/23)
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To: Shady
I bought two Ford Focuses in the ‘90s - both cars were total pieces of junk. Never again, never.

My first question is why did buy a second, if the first was junk? The next question is how did you buy a focus in the 90's? The first modelwas a 2000(which was offered in 1999)

My wife drove a Focus over 200k miles... and you are pwnd!

(not hers, but like it!)'92 ZX-5 (4 doors and a hatch. ZX-3 was a 2-dr coupe!)

62 posted on 05/23/2009 4:10:18 AM PDT by WVKayaker ( God said, 'Cancel Program GENESIS.' The universe ceased to exist.- Arth. C. Clarke's shortest story)
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To: tina07
Before you rent one, look at FL Craigslists. I paid $30,000 for a gently used (16k miles) motor home which sold for $215k new, and it's only 7 years old.

If you are going to FL for a vacation, buy one cheap and resell it at home, after using it! You can find decent ones as cheap as $5-10k, ready to drive! It's the fuel costs that hurt!

I bought a diesel, when it was high. Now, diesel is again cheaper than gasoline. It's a nice coach, with two slides. It makes for "almost home". It even has a washer/dryer!

I have a Dalmation that hates to stay home, and I don't like most kennels! Plus, he barks loud at strangers. I can leave it unlocked...


63 posted on 05/23/2009 4:23:15 AM PDT by WVKayaker ( God said, 'Cancel Program GENESIS.' The universe ceased to exist.- Arth. C. Clarke's shortest story)
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To: WVKayaker

Thanks for the good advice. I’ll keep in in mind, but it will still be a while before it could ever be a reality. Hubby is laid-off, yup one of the unemployed, so each day and week sets us back more and more. My poor son has been out of work since Christmas eve...


64 posted on 05/23/2009 4:29:15 AM PDT by tina07 (In loving memory of my father,WWII Vet. CBI 10/16/42-12/17/45, d. 11/1/85 -Happy B'day Daddy 2/20/23)
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To: Mr. Mojo

Interesting I have too have one the good ones, a 2000 Explorer XLT 4x4 with the HP V6, gets 14-16 city, 20 mpg when I drive the new speed limit of 80 Hwy and if I am nice about 22+ Hwy on average. The best car and engine I have ever owned (and I have owned a few name brand muscle cars). Most of this is noise! You really have to ask yourself, if we use less gas will the price stay low, they have to make profit on all those gallons, also if we use less and pay more will the Chinese pay the same; I doubt it. Once we are committed to supposedly using less and saving, will the rest of the world do the same equitably, again I doubt it, so much for everyone working together...


65 posted on 05/23/2009 4:29:59 AM PDT by ntmxx (I am not so sure about this misdirection)
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To: neverdem

Want cheap energy and energy independence!
Then nuclear is the only way to go for mass consumption on the power grid. Further, we need as a nation to improve the technology of co-engine support, known as Hybrid systems. Using engines similar to a 1000cc motor racing cycle engines which could get 60 – 80 mpg, attached to a generator, supplying batteries, driving an electric drive train when extra power is needed the generator will supplement power directly, similar to diesel electric trains. This would be enough to support SUVs economically, pull boats, go up hills without effort and haul a family of 6 or more everywhere…


66 posted on 05/23/2009 4:30:00 AM PDT by ntmxx (I am not so sure about this misdirection)
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To: neverdem

For increased mileage I can buy a free breathing air filter, I can install some expensive spark plugs, that would help, I can install a better or tweak the existing intake manifold and gain just a bit. A really slippery engine oil would help too but not a huge amount. Changing the fan blade to a freer running type might add just a bit of mileage as would the right tires. Maybe an engine controller would help if I use it properly. A less back pressure exhaust system? I don’t know how much that help.

I can do all this for a $1000-$1500. But would I do it for a 3 mpg increase or would it take more? I don’t know.

Piston engine air craft use a dual spark system for safety but it burns the fuel more efficiently, would such a system be feasible for mass produced autos? Kind of depends on the cost of redesigning the engines and production.

My point is that there are things that can be done to increase mileage in gasoline engines besides reducing weight but they’re more costly.

For that reason I would think diesel engines would the best option.


67 posted on 05/23/2009 4:37:17 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: donmeaker

“With lighter and smaller cars you get better gas mileage. You also get higher death rates from accidents.”

Quite so. I saw a heavy Cadillac hit a small Japanese car in the rear and the lighter car burst into flames. The poor driver escaped but not before being terribly burned.

And I turned a few tin boxes into scrap with a armored tank known as a ‘75 LTD.


68 posted on 05/23/2009 4:48:19 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Vendome

My only Ford was an ‘87 Taurus. I liked that car till some idiot woman ran stop sign and totalled it. I bought it new and had it for seven years. How are your Taurses holding up? Mine had over a hundred thousand miles and never had a mechanical problem.


69 posted on 05/23/2009 4:59:11 AM PDT by raybbr (It's going to get a lot worse now that the anchor babies are voting!)
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To: neverdem

Check out Amory Lovins and the Rocky Mountian Institute (rmi.org). They advocate radical engineering changes in materials (advanced plastics and composites) and energy management (such as the braking system on the Prius) to increase gas mileage.

He’s no enviro-whackjob either. He does a lot of contract work for the military. After all, the less dependent the individual soldier is on the supply of fuel, the more effective and efficient he will be at achieving is objective, and the more men you can remove from the supply chain, the more support you can give to the man on the front line.


70 posted on 05/23/2009 5:01:06 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (Truly Constitutional money isn't just backed by gold and silver- it IS gold and silver.)
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To: Mr. Mojo

My 2000 Acura 3.2TL has become my commuting vehicle for a 100 mile daily round trip, and with a few tweaks such as better tires and a K&N high-flow air filter, I’m getting 31-32mpg on the highway.

A brand new Ford Focus trumpets 33mpg highway.


71 posted on 05/23/2009 5:21:32 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: OneWingedShark
Now, I imagine that a “native diesel” engine would be even better, being designed “from the floor up” with Diesel in mind; however, that is completely disregarding the advances in technologies that could be applied to the engine.

Honda has done just that, with the iCTDI, which can achieve 55-60mpg highway in a Honda Accord.

The problem with diesels is that the EPA-driven emissions standards make most high-MPG new diesel passenger cars, long available in Europe, illegal in almost the entire US.

We could have had 40-50mpg passenger cars years ago, if it weren't for the federal government.

72 posted on 05/23/2009 5:25:32 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: WVKayaker

Regenerative braking has been used in the railroad industry since the early 20th century. It is commonly referred to as “Dynamic braking”.

Locomotives commonly referred to as “diesels” are actually “diesel-electrics” with the diesel engine driving an generator or alternator which furnishes electricity for the traction motors which are geared to the drive axles.

By reversing the polarity of the field winding of the motors, they operate as “mini-generators” producing electricity which is wasted as heat through air cooled resistor grids on the roof of the locomotive. The mechanical resistance of the motors is used to hold train speed on a downgrade, or slow the train on more level sections of the railroad and reduce the use of the air brakes.

On some straight electric locomotives the regenerated electricity was returned to the overhead catenary system. The Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific RR used this system on their two electrified divisions in the Rocky and Cascade mountain ranges.

GE has a prototype diesel-electric locomotive which uses battery banks to store the electricity so that it can be used on the next acceleration after braking. The biggest obstacle to wide scale application of this technology is the weight of the battery banks which makes the locomotive exceptionally heavy.


73 posted on 05/23/2009 5:25:37 AM PDT by Yankee
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To: WVKayaker
Actually, the question should be..."How FAR can it travel on the batteries after the gas tank is depleted? Every time you slow down, it makes more juice!

I got nearly 34 mpg highway on one tank of gas on my 2000 Acura TL by carefully watching my driving habits.

Instead of jackrabbiting up to tailgate the next guy ahead of me on the freeway like most other people seem to enjoy doing, I maintained plenty of following distance, left home earlier, planned ahead for ramps and lane changes, and didn't touch the brakes at all for about 90% of my 50-mile, 65mph commute.

I can hardly imagine what kind of MPG I would have gotten if I could have driven 55mph without causing a 50-car pile-up.

74 posted on 05/23/2009 5:30:17 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: WVKayaker
Everything has inertia; if it has a mass, it has inertia. A hybrid reclaims energy through the fundamentals of physics. Do you remember any high school or college physics?...

I remember just enough high school physics to know that if you don't press the brakes, you can't take advantage of regenerative braking.

My folks live about 800 miles away. If I didn't have to eat or take a leak for about 13 1/2 hours, I could drive there in my 2000 Acura 3.2 TL stopping for gas only once.

75 posted on 05/23/2009 5:38:36 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: mvpel
I sold my '90 TownCar last year. It had a 5 ltr. V-8, which gave me up to 25 on the highway at 55. Before that, I had an '89 Continental that a guy sold me a "chip" to help it out. That 6-banger gave me over 40 on the hwy! I should have kept it, but the airbag suspension was going down. It could walk away from a stock Mustang GT.

The owner of Electromotivehad a Cont., and made it a personal project. They were making power for racers at the time!!! It cost me $1500 in 1989! Mass production would lower those costs. I bought it for economy. I was putting 50-60k a year on the road.

http://www.electromotive-inc.com/

76 posted on 05/23/2009 5:38:41 AM PDT by WVKayaker ( God said, 'Cancel Program GENESIS.' The universe ceased to exist.- Arth. C. Clarke's shortest story)
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To: neverdem
Another option is to reduce the weight of the vehicle to get the gains Obama so desires. Continuing down this path, the automobile quickly becomes a motorcycle.

My old 1972 BMW R75/5 (750 cc, 57 hp.) motorcycle got about 37 mpg, not enough to meet the Usurper's 39 mpg. standard for automobiles. We can all kiss AC and anything else that makes a car comfortable or enjoyable to drive goodbye.

77 posted on 05/23/2009 5:41:11 AM PDT by libstripper
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To: mvpel
I remember just enough high school physics to know that if you don't press the brakes, you can't take advantage of regenerative braking.

The term "braking" is a technical term. Any vehicle in motion is constantly "braking". Read the article I noted above, and you will get a better understanding than I can give you. I'm just a salesman...


78 posted on 05/23/2009 5:44:44 AM PDT by WVKayaker ( God said, 'Cancel Program GENESIS.' The universe ceased to exist.- Arth. C. Clarke's shortest story)
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To: neverdem
There is no shortage of oil. There is no global warming. Car engines are as close to pollution-free as you're going to get.

There's an unspoken agreement between environmentalist (with emphasis on 'mental') and the oil companies to restrict the supply of oil, thereby providing a price support for the oil companies. The environmentalists get to feel good about themselves for reducing oil consumption.

They get the bennies, we get the shaft. Voters wake up.

79 posted on 05/23/2009 5:53:07 AM PDT by Jabba the Nutt (Obama, the American Allende.)
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To: WVKayaker

Ah that’s right, such as the engine braking that the transmission does on a non-hybrid vehicle when you’re going downhill and the cruise control is trying to keep you at the set speed. (At least on Honda and Ford cruise controls - I rented a Chevy that didn’t do that and it got me a speeding ticket.)

But regenerative braking can only recapture a fraction of your forward momentum. The rest is lost to rolling resistance and wind resistance. The only reason you’d have range beyond the end of your gas tank is that the charge controller on hybrids prevents 100% depletion of batteries.


80 posted on 05/23/2009 5:53:37 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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