Critics Still Haven't Read the 'Torture' Memos

The Wall Street Journal ^ | May 16, 2009 | Victoria Toensing

[MHGinTN]

God uses a spherical holographic screen. I thought you knew that ...

[MHGinTN]

Read the article, idiot.

[Yardstick]

I’m just relaying God’s opinion, as you did.

[Osage Orange]

You aren't among the just. There is your problem interpreting your favorite passages.

Wow!!

JasonC has spoke..........

And so it shall be.......

[shoptalk]

JasonC: I am an American fighting man and your enemy, and nothing you say or do, save renouncing torture, will change that.

Somehow I think if you were truly an American fighting man, you'd know it's SERE - not SEAR.

JasonC (from another torture thread): The men who added it to SEAR knew it was torture and added it as torture.

What's the "A" stand for?

Accomodation?

Appeasement?

[Bishop_Malachi]

Don't waste your breath with Jason. To be fair, he has some excellent posts on issues of finance and economics. They are insightful and oftentimes very enlightening. But on issues of national security especially as it regards counter-espionage and anti-terrorism, I find him shockingly wanting.

To him, we are all monsters because we only admit "torture" to be wrong 99.9% of the time. That .1% that is reserved for the most culpable mass-murderers of our time when they are known to be complicit in grand schemes of destruction is unbearable to his idea of America.

If we lived in an technological age where these thugs could do little damage with their schemes, then perhaps waterboarding as a means to seize the initiative from these vermin would be intolerable. But in our time, this is not the case. For me and my family, I am not willing to forego it's use under the illusion that I am more moral for not doing so. Whether he calls me his countryman or not is of little concern to me.

[Vigilantcitizen]

I am an American fighting man and your enemy, and nothing you say or do, save renouncing torture, will change that.

Whatever you self righteous putz. Did God tell you I'm gonna burn in hell too? Well, I'll see you there being that you're taking it upon yourself to put on God's shoes of judgement.

[JasonC]

"on issues of national security"

Look for the thread on the Algerian war and its lessons for this one. Right after 9/11. All laid out clear as day, what will work and what won't, what to avoid. You haven't learned the lessons of history on the matter, I have. That is all.

[Bishop_Malachi]

Although I'm certain that my words will score no points with you, I'll try to clarify my views (for what it's worth). I do not support torture as a method of counter-insurgency, nor as a means to impose a regime upon a group of people. Nor do I support it as a means of extracting information from common criminals, mobsters, and murderers.

But this particular enemy has traits that - when combined with 21st century technolgy - create a potential for lethality out of all proportion to its numbers. The willingness to plot mass-murder on a grand scale. By this I mean, for example, to spend years of one's life learning at a flight-school only to use this education/knowledge to destroy thousands of people and wreak economic and emotional havoc on a people (and to gladly die in order to carry it out). If this kind of mentality were rare, then again I'd be less prone to embrace brutal methods, but this ideology seems to have no shortage of men and women who will gladly give their life if only for a chance to kill large numbers of innocents.

If the day ever arrived where we had possession of a conspirator; and this man or woman was believed (with strong evidence) to have knowledge of a impending, catastrophic attack. I simply could not bring myself to have waterboarding or any method of similar "harsh interrogation" taken off the table. Torture as a means of terrorizing populations into supporting one's regime?...never. As a means of extracting information to which one is entitled?...absolutely.

Lastly, I realize that my arguments haven't impressed you one bit. And I realize that you still believe I'm as big a neanderthal as before. All I can say in my final defense is that I do beleive it is possible to use these harsh methods and then walk away, maintaining one's humanity. Just as it is possible for a man to put down a rifle, walk away from years of war, and become a peace-loving citizen again.

[GVnana]

All that is necessary to get these men to cease their harmful behavior is to imprison them.

That's true. But imprisonment doesn't give us any information.

Do we not have the right to know what threats exist from openly avowed enemies who have demonstrated their willingness to kill?

These people are not citizens who have strayed into criminal conduct and committed personal crimes. They are foreign enemies who have sworn themselves to the defeat of the United States. Torts and criminal law do not apply.

[mad_as_he$$]

Do not confuse my preconceived notions with the facts!!!

[mad_as_he$$]

She used to do a lot of cable talking head stuff. Haven’t seen her much lately.

[mad_as_he$$]

Hey a$$hat. I was THERE when 150 US soldiers were saved from certain death in a VC attack. We stopped the attack and massacred the the VC. Why? Because we tortured a captured VC. We did fully knowing what we were doing and I would do it 1000 times again if it saved 1 US life.

Waterboarding is NOT torture and not at all comparable to hooking electricity to someones nuts. Go back and play World of Warcraft the real world is too tough for you.

Do I think I will be welcomed in heaven? No. Gave that along time ago. I will however be welcome in Valhalla and Stovakor by real me who did what they had to to try and make it home and that is OK with me. No one is clean in war.

"You know what you are. What you're made of. War is in your blood. Don't fight it. You didn't kill for your country. You killed for yourself. God's never gonna make that go away. When you're pushed, killing's as easy as breathing." John J. Rambo summed it up nicely.

Oh and here is me response to your response. Kiss my ground pounding a$$ and never darken my door.

[mad_as_he$$]

Your are a presumptive a$$ who condemns people on behalf of God? You are the one going to hell.

[mad_as_he$$]

I know people who know God and JasonC is not him.