Posted on 05/07/2009 9:22:25 PM PDT by ckilmer
This newspaper was in circulation until the late 80’s and I don’t doubt that that is what it in fact stated.
I don’t think that it has any bearing regarding the coco solo/colon birth issue though. They had a birth announcement, the father was stationed at cs., so....
If someone starts showing me clinic births on pacific side by clinic (other than ancon) name rather than by base name, I would look at this at least somewhat differently.
I think McCain was the exception that disproves the rule, in terms of natural birth. The circumstances of his birth could not have been expected by the founders (lived infant years in panama as part of a military occupation force of territory extracted from that country after we separated it from colombia), then elsewhere) in the natural birth clause.
I DO believe it was meant to exclude people with claim to US citizenship who had been born and raised abroad (read - england, france, etc) from returning and having any ability to run for president. Needless to say, the Chester Arthur issue says a lot on what Obama’s claim to natural born citizenship is, no matter where he was born, unless another father is on his bc.
The Founders were establishing a Republic, not an empire. They weren’t interested in having imperial families birthing children in far off satrapies coming back to rule a global empire...
The law is the law. It doesn’t matter what the Founders did or did not expect. Did you read the legal brief at the link?
I don't doubt that the announcement appeared in the paper. That doesn't make it true.
I said “The circumstances of his birth could not have been expected by the founders (lived infant years in panama as part of a military occupation force of territory extracted from that country after we separated it from colombia), then elsewhere) in the natural birth clause.”
the ‘could not have been expected’ part was in reference to the issue you bring up.
in the same post you quote, I also said “I don’t think that it has any bearing regarding the coco solo/colon birth issue though. They had a birth announcement, the father was stationed at cs., so....”
Compare with your statement - “I don’t doubt that the announcement appeared in the paper. That doesn’t make it true.”
Where is it you disagree with me? Was the ... part not clear in what I implied?
And it’s what disqualified him.
Could you give me the post number where I said that? I can't find it.
Compare with your statement - “I don’t doubt that the announcement appeared in the paper. That doesn’t make it true.”
Where is it you disagree with me? Was the ... part not clear in what I implied?
You replied "Could you give me the post number where I said that? I can't find it."
Important to read entire posts before you reply. 62, 65, 68, and 70 are the prior posts in this exchange between us.
No, it wasn't.
Is it now? usually the ‘I said’ phrase followed by quotations marks implies that I am quoting myself.
Yes, I missed your attribution of the quote. I was the quote itself that wasn’t clear.
yeah I did leave too much to assumption there, apologies for the subsequent confusion.
That’s alright. Confusion happens.
Doesn't matter in McCain's situation.
Vattel's "Law of Nations" AND "Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England" BOTH contain an exemption to the "born in the country" criteria for the children born outside the country to a parent serving in the "armies" of the nation. (with both still needing to be citizens in Vattel's version, just the father in Blackstones).
If we are going to use Vattel's criteria (and that where the two citizen parents & born in the country notion comes from)
§ 212. Citizens and natives.
The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens
We should also use his:
§ 217. Children born in the armies of the state.
For the same reasons also, children born out of the country, in the armies of the state, or in the house of its minister at a foreign court, are reputed born in the country; for a citizen who is absent with his family, on the service of the state, but still dependent on it, and subject to its jurisdiction, cannot be considered as having quitted its territory.
Both sections are in Law of Nations, Book I (the link is the 1883 printing of the 1852 edition, which was itself but an update of the 1833 edition, which was a fresh translation by Joesph Chitty. But the most of the founders, certainly Ben Franklin, who saw to it that the Convention had access to a copy of "Law of Nations", could read the original French anyway. Vattel was a noted Swiss jurist who was born in 1714 and died in 1767. "LeDroit des Gens" is certainly a work of the first magnitude. It modernized the whole theory and business of International Law, brought it out of the study into the field, the mart, the council chamber, and the palace. Vattel was from that part of Switzerland that spoke French, although French was also the language of diplomacy and culture in those days, which why "The First American", B. Franklin, spoke it. (The better to charm the ladies, especially the French ladies when he was sent to France to raise support for the American cause.)
Unless ones parents are outside the country on the countries business, such as diplomatic staff, or military. McCain's father was Navy, as was his Grandfather.
You are conflating "natural born" with "citizen at birth". The only thing "natural born" matters for is eligibility to the office of President.
He was born to 2 American citizens over the age of 18. Yes he was a citizen.
He is indeed, but he's also, like your father, natural born, since although they were born outside the country to two US citizens, their fathers were serving the country at the time. See "Law of Nations" Book I, sections 212 and 217.
It's been verified that there was an older and smaller hospital there before the one built in the early '40s. It's also been verified that at least one medical officer was stationed at Coco Solo.
But in calling McCain's mother a liar, you are trending on dangerous ground. She might hear of it, and come beat the snot out of you. :) She is still alive you know, and as of about a year ago, quite hale and hearty. She appeared on the platform with her son on election night.
But, it really doesn't matter, because John S. McCain II was serving the country in the Navy at the time. He could have been born in that Panamanian hospital, and he'd still be a natural born citizen of the US. That "exception" for military (and diplomats) existed before the Constitution was ratified.
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