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Why Our Credit Crunch Mirrors the Weimar Hyperinflation from 1919-1923
Seeking Alpha ^ | 4/15/2009 | Avery Goodman

Posted on 04/15/2009 5:45:14 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

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1 posted on 04/15/2009 5:45:15 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: PAR35; TigerLikesRooster; AndyJackson; Thane_Banquo; nicksaunt; MadLibDisease; happygrl; ...
*Ping!*
2 posted on 04/15/2009 5:45:58 AM PDT by rabscuttle385 ("If this be treason, then make the most of it!" —Patrick Henry)
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To: SeekAndFind

bfl


3 posted on 04/15/2009 6:02:09 AM PDT by blam
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To: SeekAndFind

How accurate is this article?

I was under the impression a major component of Germany’s economic problems after The Great War were the reparations payments imposed by the Treaty of Versailles; this article seems to make no mention of them at all.


4 posted on 04/15/2009 6:10:08 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: rabscuttle385

Cuz, the wolf is in the hen house, drowsy, and just getting ready to wake up and start chomping a new a$$ on the US economy.


5 posted on 04/15/2009 6:10:16 AM PDT by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: sickoflibs; Impy
Post WW I Germany had just finished fighting a major war on borrowed money, without properly budgeting or taxing. The USA has just fought, and continues to fight, multiple wars on multiple fronts that, while not quite as "big" as WW I, have been extraordinarily costly. We use a professional army, and its pay and equipment add huge costs. We have failed to budget these wars, and have borrowed money instead in order to fight them.

I'm waiting for the Bushbots to show up and bleat that these wars were necessary to "keep us safe," just like the creation of the Department of Homeland Security, an agency now being used against "right-wing extremists" (conservative activists).

6 posted on 04/15/2009 6:17:28 AM PDT by rabscuttle385 ("If this be treason, then make the most of it!" —Patrick Henry)
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To: DuncanWaring

Good point - I don’t know. The author seems to mix fact and fiction.

EG, his talk of “mark-to-market” is nonsense.


7 posted on 04/15/2009 6:19:18 AM PDT by patton (I hope that they fight to the death and both sides win.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Interesting Looooong article that misses the point in what is happening entirely! This “Crisis” is the excuse to set up a Dictatorship (possibly on a world wide scale) and return the citizens to subservience under an all powerful oligarchy. Quidado! We are resetting to 1933 Germany.
8 posted on 04/15/2009 6:19:43 AM PDT by Don Corleone (Leave the gun..take the cannoli now reads "Oil the gun..eat the cannolis.")
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To: SeekAndFind

ping


9 posted on 04/15/2009 6:27:25 AM PDT by foolscap
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To: DuncanWaring

Those payments were, indeed, a small part of the problem an, of course, got all of the blame from the politicians who needed something foreign-caused to focus on.


10 posted on 04/15/2009 6:32:25 AM PDT by arthurus ( H.L. Mencken said, "Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods.")
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To: Don Corleone

Weimar led directly to Hitler. I think that is inherent in the German financial situation in 1919 and after.


11 posted on 04/15/2009 6:36:20 AM PDT by arthurus ( H.L. Mencken said, "Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods.")
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To: DuncanWaring
Yes, the article misses the mark. He makes Germany after the Great War sound like it had more friends than we do now! The truth is, the German Empire self-destructed in a blaze of hubris that started with the rape of neutral Belgium, which brought Britain into the war, and ended with prepaptions for a last naval attack against the British fleet, which precipitated a mutiny that spread nationwide and brought down the Reich.

In the aftermath, there was starvation, recriminations and chaos, compunded by punitive demands from the victorious powers for reparations that the new, unstable government had no ability to pay on time.

12 posted on 04/15/2009 6:55:09 AM PDT by Dick Holmes
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To: DuncanWaring

The answer is when in article 1 the author desribed post WW I Germany as the biggest debtor nation in the world.
He explains that Germany had assumed huge internal debts fighting the war, but England had accrued even larger debts during the same period.
He fails to make clear that it was the astonishing, open ended, unpayable debts piled on by the victors in 1919 that made Germany far and away the biggest debtor nation the world has ever seen.
Their burden of debt to GNP makes America’s debt today seem like pin money and perhaps explaining that would have weakened his comparison.


13 posted on 04/15/2009 6:56:42 AM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: rabscuttle385; Impy
You are singing my song rabscuttle385, all the Bush/Hannity/Levin great americans waved their flags on Iraq invasion/reconstruction and at same time they all demanded THEIR tax cuts to save the economy. I believed them too, but no more.

You have to pay for government, even republican government, or it grows endlessly and you pay much more in the long run.

14 posted on 04/15/2009 7:39:38 AM PDT by sickoflibs (RNC Party Theme : "We may be socialists, but they are Marxists!")
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To: SeekAndFind
The only problem with this is there will be a massive dollar devaluation. Against what currency will the dollar depreciate against? The Euro is in bad shape, as are the Pound and the Yen. The only major currency that is not in worse shape than the dollar is the Chinese Yuan, but China has shown clearly that it is not about to let the yuan be revalued upwards against the dollar (for trade reasons).
15 posted on 04/15/2009 7:47:59 AM PDT by expatpat
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To: SeekAndFind

Well, I’ve been a professional economist, an amateur history buff, and an avid follower of the recent crises from economic, financial, historical and geopolitical perspectives. The parallel to Weimar Germany is just wrong. There is a much much stronger historical parallel - the British Empire a century ago.

In 1900, Britain was the world’s lone superpower, based on the massive power of its industrial economy, as a massive net industrial exporter and net lender. Its empire controlled massive swaths of land in Africa, North America, Australia and Asia. London was the world’s financial center, and the system of global trade was centered on the pound sterling - giving British subjects the most desired currency in the world and the most favorable position for access to strategic natural resources. But there were vulnerabilities - the cost of militarily protecting its position was growing while dozens of small threats ganged up strategically against the giant. Up and coming competitors and recent entrants into the industrial revolution seemed poised to take its position - most notably Germany and the US. Then came WW1 and the Great Depression. The world expected the impossible - that Britain’s industrial power and its pound sterling would be able to save the world. But it couldn’t - the policy required to maintain the global system of London-based, Pound-focused trade and finance was the exact opposite of that required to prop up British production and employment. Britain became a net importer from the US during the wars, and a net borrower to pay for its war and economic recovery efforts. The global system collapsed in the 1930s, currency crises reduced the value of the pound, the empire began to unwind, and Britain was saved only by the power of the US, which emerged from WW2 and finally from the cold war at the top of the power pyramid.

On to Washington and New York. With the destruction in Europe in WW2 and the loss of London and the Pound in the 1930s as the anchor of international finance & trade, the US and the Dollar took their place. First at Bretton Woods, the US promised convertibility to gold in exchange for the Dollar as the global standard. But the cost of the Marshall Plan, the Cold War, and the Great Society cost the US too much gold to maintain convertibility. Nixon cancelled gold convertability, and Nixon & Kissinger (with help from Volcker) protected the dollar’s supreme position with a promise of US trade deficits (to provide foreigners a way to earn dollars and grow their economies), US budget deficits (to provide foreigners a safe place to invest those dollars), and growing imports of foreign energy (to increase demand by making the Dollar the currency used to buy oil). The unsustainability of the bargain was clear by Nixon economist’s comment to objectors that “if it can’t go on forever, it will stop.” Since 1973 - for 35 years - the US has gone from a net exporter and net lender to a net importer & net borrower, and its future liabilities are unsustainable at current levels.

Today, the dollar is still the global standard, but based on several vulnerable supports: the positioin of US treasury bonds as both a safe and profitable investment; the ability of the US economy to maintain its levels of net importing and net borrowing; its position as the medium of international trade for oil; the percention that the Fed can maintain its independence from US politicians, so that Fed policy does not hurt foreign dollar-holders. If any one of those supports gives, they all collapse, leading to something very similar to mid-20th-century Britain or worse.


16 posted on 04/15/2009 8:45:30 AM PDT by sanchmo
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To: arthurus

“Those payments were, indeed, a small part of the problem”

JM Keynes became famous for his book “The Economic Consequences of the Peace” where he demonstrated that the reparations payments were impossible for the German people to fulfil. The reparations were small in the same sense that Katrina was a rain storm.


17 posted on 04/15/2009 10:19:43 AM PDT by Pelham (America, an extinct culture formerly occupying Mexifornia and New Aztlan.)
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To: sanchmo

Good post, and a cheery forecast indeed. What will the next reserve currency be?


18 posted on 04/15/2009 10:24:28 AM PDT by Pelham (America, an extinct culture formerly occupying Mexifornia and New Aztlan.)
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To: SeekAndFind

bttt


19 posted on 04/15/2009 10:41:23 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (01-20-2009 : The end of the PAX AMERICANA.)
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To: Pelham

Probably unknownable. Some serious people are quitely rumbling again about SDRs and about return to gold and about some other type of commodity backing (like energy commodities!). Change in the system is inevitable in the long term (”if it can’t go on forever, it will stop”), although collapse in the short-to-mid term is not.

That being said, remember how we got out of the 1970s... we had just changed the system, still had not built the kinds of deficits required (sounds absurdist, doesn’t it?), domestic inflation had grown into the double-digits and (in combination with overseas devaluation) were seeing clear threats of a devaluation / spiraling-inflation crisis. Then Volcker came back into the picture - fully aware that the big problem was not the price of milk in New York, but the faith in London & Tokyo in the Fed’s ability to act independently to provide them a global currency - and he beat the US economy down into a double-dip, multi-year, worst-since-1930s recession. That’s why I don’t know any simple way to get to an easy recovery - not a single “recovery scenario” includes an fully-developed exit strategy, and the only ones that factor in both domestic and international considerations lead to a wide variety of types of protracted pain. Extreme uncertainty, although we can rule out a return to a happy stupor.


20 posted on 04/15/2009 11:08:09 AM PDT by sanchmo
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