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FReeper Book Club: Atlas Shrugged, The Man Who Belonged on Earth
A Publius Essay | 28 March 2009 | Publius

Posted on 03/28/2009 7:39:14 AM PDT by Publius

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To: mick
And telling yourself you had no choice never makes it easier. I tell myself I ran away to fight another day. Maybe. Or maybe I just wanted to survive and save my ass.

I'd first say it's not a stark menu of those two choices, but a continuum from one extreme to the other, and your actions are closer to the first (fight another day) than the second (survive at the cost of your dignity). Here's why: How long did the looters (city of Camden in your case) benefit from your "surrender"? Answer -- not long. They're no better off now that you've moved than they would have been had you refused their demand for protection money the very first time. And it's not something irrevocable like Rearden giving the government rights to Rearden Metal. I give you an A- at worst. While I do feel bad for the neighborhood kids who lost their jobs, maybe this will be an object lesson for them in the worth of overbearing government vs. the worth of the productive who produce value, and they'll grow up to be Galt's themselves.

81 posted on 03/29/2009 7:47:50 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: CottonBall
Who is John Galt?” Stadler doesn’t like the expression but says he once knew a John Galt, now deceased. Had he lived, the whole world would have talked of him. Dagny points out that the whole world is talking of him. Stadler reacts in terror: “He has to be dead.” Why the terror? This isn't the first character in the book to be afraid when John Galt is mentioned, I believe.

I thought about that awhile myself. My assumption at this point is like how Bromden thinks about McMurphy is Cuckoo's Nest, that it's better for him to be dead rather than enduring the current state of affairs. IOW, "How terrible if John Galt were to be living in a world like today's!"

82 posted on 03/29/2009 7:57:56 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: r-q-tek86
I am going to respectfully disagree with you. I think the whole "sanction of the victim" refers to trying to manipulate the victim - in your example, the tax payer - into believing that the punishment being handed out is not only good, but deserved.

I think the idea is somewhere between that and that the government would be satisfied if the victim acts as if the government premises were correct, even if he doesn't believe it himself. Remember the conversation between the police type and Rearden over his refusal to sell RM to the Science Institute. The cop seemed more concerned with public perception than with Hank's opinion.

83 posted on 03/29/2009 8:03:40 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Publius
No, Barak Obama = Head of State Thompson, whom we will meet in a later chapter.

Ooh, good call. The Obama:Mouch thing didn't fit for me either, based upon either position or personality.

84 posted on 03/29/2009 8:05:57 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: mick

Of course you wanted to survive to save your ass, so you paid the protection money. Nobody can fault you for that.
But you should be saluted for going on strike against the city of Camden.


85 posted on 03/29/2009 8:10:59 AM PDT by DownwardSpiral (Downward Spiral is where the (socialist) liberals are taking us!)
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To: tstarr
When I was hiring programmers a few years ago, I was hard pressed to find anyone who knew more than the computer language itself. There was a depth of education that is lacking now, IMHO.

I had a similar experience with Mechanical Engineering and Drafting. Back in the day, we were required to be able to design a good drawing that would convey simply and unambiguously the part we had designed. Fast forward a couple decades to CAD applicants from supposedly prestigious (and ACTUALLY very expensive) CAD schools, and you find that they hadn't been taught drafting-using-CAD, but simply how to work the CAD program. They had no idea what made a drawing good, much less how to design a part, but they thought they were mechanical designers because they could work the CAD program. Doh!

86 posted on 03/29/2009 8:24:39 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: tstarr
I haven’t been able to figure out how to italicize items I pull from other responses

Put "< i >" before and "< / i >" after the text (no quotes or spaces). Use "b" instead of "i" for bold, "u" for underline, and "s" for striked ("stricken"?). There's a HTML primer hosted somewhere on FR that covers not only all of this but posting images and links as well as colors, font sizes, etc. Also if you use Firefox, download the HTML Xtra addon. It expedites adding the tags; that's what I use.

87 posted on 03/29/2009 8:36:41 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Publius
I wrote of the concept of “rent seeking”, the pursuit of government subsidy for the sake of profit...

...Where else is this going on today?

The welfare state comes to mind. Those who are able to show that they can't work are often very skilled at 'working' the system. Also, local government entities are very hard pressed to find workers who are skilled at writing grant proposals because they are in such demand. Indeed our local government was scrambling before the last election to have 'shovel ready' projects for the great govenment money giveaway! The local leaders had an anything goes attitude, as long as it brought federal dollars to this area.

88 posted on 03/29/2009 8:39:29 AM PDT by whodathunkit (Shrugging as I leave for the Gulch)
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To: Still Thinking

Interesting. I didn’t even think it could’ve had a compassionate cause. The two characters I remember so far showing fear that Galt might be alive seemed more like ones that would be happy he was - so your interpretation makes more sense. Thanks for the insight!


89 posted on 03/29/2009 8:54:09 AM PDT by CottonBall
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To: tstarr
Sorry, it's not HtmlXtra, but BBCodeXtra, as it also does bulletin board style tags as well as xHtml. I only use the HTML ones and only have that menu turned on, so I thought that was the name of the entire add-on.
90 posted on 03/29/2009 8:54:15 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: MtnClimber
My company has resorted to hiring computer security (Information Assurance) engineers who have history and psychology degrees. Ever try to get something done while working with totally incapable people?

LOL! How frustrating for you.

Actually, though - I have. I taught for a short time. ;(
91 posted on 03/29/2009 8:55:32 AM PDT by CottonBall
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To: tstarr
Funny - I did my masters thesis and had to punch a full box (2000 cards) of data. Fairly straightforward program, but lots of data. When I found out I could read that into a data file and read that instead of feeding the box of cards every time, I thought I’d died and gone to heaven! :-)

Same here - the first year I got to use a terminal to input my program was SO wonderful.

Actually, some of the best programmers I’ve worked with have had “odd” majors like music and philosophy. Go figure... Music I can kind of understand, but philosophy surprised me a bit. I guess it was the logic part of philosophy.

Now that you mention it, that makes sense. Logic is required for programming above anything else, IMO. And it needs to be pretty intuitive - hard to teach on the job. Majors like engineering and math - and even music and philosophy - will teach that throughout the 4 years in school. Now it makes sense why Lenny (Lenny the Liberal, we called him - poor guy got a lot of razzing) was doing s/w.
92 posted on 03/29/2009 8:59:22 AM PDT by CottonBall
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To: CottonBall

Yeah, so far at least I see Stadler as kind of a wussified Galt. He knows what’s right, but is too willing to compromise due to some belief in the futility of fighting what’s going on. While he did work for the establishment of the Science Institute which strikes us as emblematic of the collectivism about them, he apparently didn’t do it out of those beliefs, and doesn’t even seem to adhere to them himself. I kind of suspect that somewhere in the book he’ll find his stones and stand up and finally become fully one of the good guys. Don’t forget he was one of (albeit the weaker one) the formational mentors of Galt, d’Anconia, and Dannerskjold.


93 posted on 03/29/2009 9:00:36 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: CottonBall

Some of the smartest engineers I have known had dual majors in Music and either Engineering or Physics.


94 posted on 03/29/2009 9:10:33 AM PDT by MtnClimber (Bernard Madoff's ponzi scheme looks remarkably similar to the way Social Security works)
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To: MtnClimber
Bernard Madoff's ponzi scheme looks remarkably similar to the way Social Security works

Can we exhume FDR and indict him? Please?

95 posted on 03/29/2009 9:11:42 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Publius

I’m almost to the end of Part II and I’m still baffled by the identity of Eddie Willers’ silent (to us) dinner partner. Obviously a gulcher and an influential one, because spoiling events have occurred which due to their timing have to have occurred because of these dinner conversations, and using intelligence gained there. But since Eddie doesn’t recognize the guy, it can’t be anyone he knows, like Francisco, whom he grew up with. At the moment I’m assuming John Galt. (Not a spoiler if true because I’m just guessing!)


96 posted on 03/29/2009 9:36:08 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: sneakin

Thanx, I’ve now added “Our Enemy the State” to Locke’s 2nd treatse on government, Adam Smith “theory of the moral sentiments” and “wealth of nations”, the “Federalist Papers”, the “Anti-Federalist Papers” and Herbert Spencer’s “Man Verses the State”.


97 posted on 03/29/2009 10:04:47 AM PDT by fella (.He that followeth after vain persons shall have poverty enough." Pv.28:19')
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To: Still Thinking

I am using Firefox! Thanks for the tip.


98 posted on 03/29/2009 10:24:17 AM PDT by tstarr
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To: Publius
Sheesh! COBOL for a chemist! That's must have been like Quentin Daniels working in the State Science Institute. And no, I don't Enjoy Data Processing.
99 posted on 03/29/2009 11:08:44 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: whodathunkit
Also, local government entities are very hard pressed to find workers who are skilled at writing grant proposals because they are in such demand.

You passed by it without seeing it. That sentence contains the key truth of the matter.

Why is there the profession of Grant Writer? Isn't that just a Defreezer by a different name?

100 posted on 03/29/2009 11:48:53 AM PDT by Publius (The Quadri-Metallic Standard: Gold and silver for commerce, lead and brass for protection.)
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