Posted on 03/26/2009 7:18:13 PM PDT by forkinsocket
“Seems to me that if the males are going to claim the power, they better claim the responsibility as well. THat’s how the europeans did it, isn’t it?”
Well, you see, Europeans believe man should be guided by the mind. Islam is all about emotions. Logical people don’t chop the heads off critics. Logical people don’t burn teenage girls to death. Logical people don’t engage in Jihad in the expectation of eternal reward. One mustn’t tamp down the emotions of its devout adherents or some might start logically deciding Islam is a lot different in practice than it pretends in spirit. So males are to be allowed full freedom of emotions including lust. The women, who are kept largely uneducated and thus less able to apply western principles of logic to their faith, are expected to control their emotions and their own behavior to avoid inflaming the emotions of the male Muslim. At least that’s how I see it. And the more it seems western influences are invading traditional Muslim enclaves, the more desperate the hardliners to enforce the hard line.
The more I hear about some kinds of crimes, the more I’m in favor or *an eye for an eye*.
**I’m trying to analyze this in a disinterested logical way.**
THAT .... is your PROBLEM!!!
You cannot Logically analyze a RADICAL LEFTIST ... the same goes with Radical MUSLIMS. I’ve studied religions for years. With ISLAM, you have to basically Accept on Faith that THIS IS THEIR WAY!!!
Nobody said that Muslims are rational. Indeed, that was precisely the question Pope Benedict XVI raised when he quoted the Byzantine Emperor, Paleologus.
Your problem is you expect muslims to be rational. In the muslim society it takes 4 MALE witnesses to testify to rape. In other words 4 males, besides the rapist(s) have to witness the rape from beginning to end, without going to the woman's aide or interfering. If the woman cries rape without the 4 males witnesses she is stoned to death and the man has nothing done to him. 4 women witnessing the rape are not valid witnesses, in fact no matter how many women witness the rape their testimony is no enough to convict a male of rape.
To expect muslims to be rational is just not logical. This is apparent when one studies the koran and all of their laws. They are not rational and are vicious excuses for human beings.
Well, no one has answered my basic questions yet...what happens to the boys, the parents, and the chaperons...at least they havn’t answered to my satisfaction.
But since we are now pointing out the absurdities of what we perceive as the muslim culture...let’s now take a look at western culture, shall we?
Traditionally, it was male dominated. With males accepting most of the responsibilities outside the home and child rearing. Punishments were meted out to males mostly. Women and children were spared certain kinds of hardships and certain types of responsibilities.
Things have changed.
Now children are sexed up. And women are immature selfish shallow and spoiled. They blather on and on about their bodies, their rights, and their suffering at the hands of men. They self mutilate in a variety of ways...plastic surgery, bolemia, anorexia, skin pigment alterations, tattoos, drugs, etc. They murder their babies and demand that men remain silent about it. They incubate vast litters of offspring and demand that men not only butt out, but also pay the expenses...silently.
It seems to me that we(westerners) aren’t so superior to the barbarians that burn women for pre marital sex.
From a 2001 story from an Indian village:
The teenage lovers lynched for talking.
18 August 2001
Irish Times
Vishal was an upper-caste Brahmin; Sonu was a lower-caste Jat. For their parents in northern India, this meant romance was not permitted - even if they had to murder their own children to prevent it...
Everybody in the tiny community knew about the romance between Vishal, a 15-year-old boy, and Sonu, a 16-year-old girl. Their families, after all, lived less than 20ft apart.
Late on Monday night the week before last, a neighbour caught the pair together as they chatted on the roadside next to a bush. She accused them of having "suspicious intentions" and dragged them into her shed. And then she summoned their families. It was not that the teenagers had been caught in flagrante - they were not even holding hands. ...
The girl's parents, Surender and Munesh, decided there was only one way to escape the terrible social humiliation their daughter had heaped upon them - they would kill her. And so, aided by three neighbours, they proceeded to strangle her in the dark shed, with its abandoned bicycle and mattresses, in front of her terrified boyfriend. "The boy's mother told them: 'Don't do this.' The girl's parents then scolded her, so the boy's mother went and stood outside," says local police officer Raispal Singh. "After that, they got a rope. They made a noose out of it and hanged the girl. They then told the boy's mother and brother and sister-in-law: 'Now you kill the boy.' They replied: 'We can't kill him. You only kill him.' At this, the girl's parents hanged the boy."
By this stage the entire village knew what was going on inside the shed. The villagers dragged the teenagers' bodies out and dumped them ...Sonu and Vishal's murders carry a blunt cautionary message: obey your parents or face the consequences. Many people in this conservative district would agree with it. The day after the killing, there was only a gruesome reminder of what might have been. Several of the lovers' bones were still visible on the pyre, bleaching in the fierce afternoon sun. The bones were jumbled up together.
The something you are missing is that you are trying to apply logic and sense to a barbaric death cult. It is nonsensical and in fact insane. That’s the whole problem.
As for westerners being as bad as muslims, I think you had better change that to non christian westerners because Christians don't have abortions or do any of the other crap you were outlining in your comment. Most of the FReepers are Christians of one denomination or another, none of those commit abortions, or have abortions or condone them. We were pointing out one religion, not all people born in the east, but one specific religion.
You, on the other hand, are tarring all western culture with the same brush.
No doubt that western values have been corroded in this “post-modern” society but I think the basic values of western civilization are far superior to those of Islam in that the abuses of western civilization fly in the face of its professed values while Islamic abuses are in furtherance of its values, or so I understand.
Now, as far as trashing women of today, be careful. Generally, when we see abuses going one direction in an extreme way they are a reaction to abuses from the other direction. Are you willing to admit that males are as responsible as females for the devaluation of western values? (And I don’t know that I agree with your statement that men accepted most of the responsibilities of childrearing and that women were not punished also if they disobeyed.)
BTW, by “It” I meant the death cult (more accurately a messianic apocalyptic death cult), not your attempt to apply logic and sense to “it.” Although that’s not too rational either, now that I think about it - no insult intended.
Well said.
Unfortunately, many many Christians do have abortions, because they have gotten themselves in a bad situation and believe that God will understand and forgive them. Some even believe that God condones.
you either misread me or I mistyped.
men accepted most of the responsibilities OTHER THAN childrearing. Women were not punished (much) by the state or by the law.
Well, what do you expect when your prophet was a pedophile?
You areright. I must have misread the part about childrearing. However, I am not sure I can agree that women were not also punished by the state. Who got burned at the stake for witchcraft? Who got the scarlet letters? I think if women were punished publicly less it was because they were less in the public sphere. To the extent they acted in the public sphere I believe it would probably be fairly even in application of punishments although it would be natural for some to believe a woman in the company of a man was dominated by that man and thus perhaps less culpable.
At any rate, perhaps you can clarify for me why your screed against modern women and their excesses and none against the men. It sounds as if you are implying that women are the reason western values have been devalued. Is that your position?
Protected minorities.
It seems to me that the protected minorities are used as pawns by the left to further their agenda. And the protected minorites go along with it like idiot pawns that the left considers them. THerefore they(pawns) must accept some blame.
women
non-whites
non-christians
am I forgetting anything?
I don’t know that I would simplify the situation into a “everybody is idiotic except white conservative males” story. Granted much of what these “protected minorities” do now plays into the hands of liberals but there’s plenty of blame to go around for everyone, including white males. We have, over a long period of time, set up a society that no longer values faith, family, honorable labor, community. Western values, or the western ideal was a balanced life of honorable work, faithful devotion to a higher power, and love of family and community involvement. When “success” was decoupled from that balance and started being defined solely by professional income, the die was cast and we can trace a lot of what’s happening now among minorities and the majority to that development or devolution. The only way for minorities to feel “successful” was to have a spot on the professional income ladder. This skewed a lot of our society and it didn’t start with the minorities but with the majority who instituted a class system of “success” recognition.
So today we have women and minorities who are obsessed with making it in the professional world. We have men and women who are obsessed with youth and beauty because they are considered the prerequisites to professional success. We have people who demand immediate access to the upper echelons of business and professions because that is the only way success or status is now defined. Yes, the left is perfectly willing to take advantage of the situation and yes, some of the groups are going along without thinking, but this is a systemic problem in that we have lost the western values of balance and virtue and hard work as worthy goals in and of themselves.
Some leaders of Christian countries committed atrocities and claimed they were done in the name of Christ but these were lies and were unChristian acts, and the bible has never condoned killing people who won't convert. BTW, I am not a Christian but I live by the 10 comandments, I also do not believe in killing unborn children for any reason.
That was insulting and dishonest. I didn’t say everyone’s an idiot except white males.
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