Posted on 03/22/2009 4:55:47 PM PDT by RobinMasters
Seriously the So called "Textus Receptus" is a trevesty imitating a translation. Yes or no did you go to the e-sword greek translation.
I know very well what the scriptures say, as well as the underlying Greek and Hebrew to them and the Jewish cultural setting of the era. But if that is the color you want to paint your wagon, go for it.
How would you know? You can’t even spell travesty properly.
Fruit of the vine is NOT wine.
It is grape juice.
Fermentation is a picture of SIN.
A preponderance of verses in both Old Testament and New Testament speak against drinking wine. Jesus was more than a Savior, He was a RABBI. Why would a RABBI under the Old Testament law, especially one who knew He was the Son of God, engage in something that the Old Testament repeatedly speaks negatively about?
YOU HAVE NO LEGS TO STAND ON. The Bible is crystal clear on the matter.
No you don’t know what it says. It says right in the verse THE FRUIT OF THE VINE, not WINE. Things different are not the same.
To make the fruit of the vine wine is to disgrace the blood of Christ. Fermentation is a picture of sin. No matter how hard you try to claim Jesus was a sinner you won’t succeed. God has the last word in His Bible.
What is the Scripture verse that says fermentation equals sin? I know Jesus said to “beware of the leaven of the Pharisees,” but where does it specifically mention fermentation being “a picture of sin?”
Your diatribe is commonly known as mind reading and where your got your assumptions of what I was refering to only come from there. So take care of how you judge others on this matter.
I yeast a gift from God?
I = Is
I posted verses already but here they are again. The drinking of fermented liquor was forbidden to the Jew in the Old Testament. They were cautioned even against LOOKING at it! (Proverbs 23:31; 20:1). God’s (Jesus Christ manifest in the flesh) blood was precious. Jesus was a Jewish rabbi. He would not have gone against the Old Testament verses proclaiming drinking wine as a sin and something that caused no end of troubles. Jesus came to fulfill the Scriptures.
1) Genesis 9:20-26 - Noah became drunk; the result was immorality and family trouble.
2) Genesis 19:30-38 - Lot was so drunk he did not know what he was doing; this led to immorality
3) Leviticus 10:9-11 - God commanded priests not to drink so that they could tell the difference between the holy and the unholy.
4) Numbers 6:3 - The Nazarites were told to eat or drink nothing from the grape vine.
5) Deuteronomy 21:20 - A drunken son was stubborn and rebellious.
6) Deuteronomy 29:5-6 - God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.
7) Deuteronomy 32:33 - Intoxicating wine is like the poison of serpents, the cruel venom of asps.
8) Judges 13:4, 7, 14 - Samson was to be a Nazarite for life. His mother was told not to drink wine or strong drink.
9) 1 Samuel 1:14-15 - Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.
10) 1 Samuel 25:32-38 - Nabal died after a drunken spree.
11) 2 Samuel 11:13 - By getting Uriah drunk, David hoped to cover his sin.
12) 2 Samuel 13:28-29 - Amnon was drunk when he was killed.
13) 1 Kings 16:8-10 - The king was drinking himself into drunkenness when he was assassinated
14) 1 Kings 20:12-21 - Ben-Hadad and 32 other kings were drinking when they were attacked and defeated by the Israelites.
15) Esther 1:5-12 - The king gave each one all the drink he wanted. The king was intoxicated when he commanded the queen to come.
16) Psalm 75:8 - The Lord’s anger is pictured as mixed wine poured out and drunk by the wicked.
17) Proverbs 4:17 - Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.
18) Proverbs 20:1 - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.
19) Proverbs 23:19-20 - A wise person will not be among the drinkers of alcoholic beverages.
20) Proverbs 23:21 - Drunkenness causes poverty.
21) Proverbs 23:29-30 - Drinking causes woe, sorrow, fighting, babbling, wounds without cause and red eyes.
22) Proverbs 23:31 - God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks.
23) Proverbs 23:32 - Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.
24) Proverbs 23:33 - Alcohol causes the drinker to have strange and adulterous thoughts, produces willfulness, and prevents reformation.
25) Proverbs 23:34 - Alcohol makes the drinker unstable
26) Proverbs 23:35 - Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning. Alcohol is habit forming.
27) Proverb 31:4-5 - Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.
28) Proverbs 31:6-7 - Strong drink could be given to those about to perish or those in pain. Better anesthetics are available today.
29) Ecclesiastes 2:3 - The king tried everything, including intoxicating drink, to see if it satisfied. It did not. (Ecclesiastes 12:8)
30) Ecclesiastes 10:17 - A land is blessed when its leaders do not drink.
31) Isaiah 5:11-12 - Woe to those who get up early to drink and stay up late at night to get drunk.
32) Isaiah 5:22 - Woe to “champion” drinkers and “experts” at mixing drinks.
33) Isaiah 19:14 - Drunken men stagger in their vomit.
34) Isaiah 22:12-13 - The Israelites choose to drink; their future looks hopeless to them.
35) Isaiah 24:9 - Drinkers cannot escape the consequences when God judges.
36) Isaiah 28:1 - God pronounces woe on the drunkards of Ephraim.
37) Isaiah 28:3 - Proud drunkards shall be trodden down.
38) Isaiah 28:7 - Priests and prophets stagger and reel from beer and wine, err in vision, and stumble in judgment.
39) Isaiah 28:8 - Drinkers’ tables are covered with vomit and filth.
40) Isaiah 56:9-12 - Drinkers seek their own gain and expect tomorrow to be just like today.
41) Jeremiah 35:2-14 - The Rechabites drank no grape juice or intoxicating wine and were blessed.
42) Ezekiel 44:21 - Again God instructed the priests not to drink wine.
43) Daniel 1:5-17 - Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.
44) Daniel 5:1 - Belshazzar, ruler of Babylon; led his people in drinking.
45) Daniel 5:2-3 - The king, along with his nobles, wives, and concubines, drank from the goblets which had been taken from God’s temple.
46) Daniel 5:4 - Drinking wine was combined with praising false gods.
47) Daniel 5:23 - God sent word to Belshazzar that punishment would be swift for the evil he had committed.
48) Hosea 4:11 - Intoxicating wine takes away intelligence.
49) Hosea 7:5 - God reproves princes for drinking.
50) Joel 1:5 - Drunkards awake to see God’s judgment.
51) Joel 3:3 - The enemy is judged for selling girls for wine.
52) Amos 2:8 - Unrighteous acts of Israel included the drinking of wine which had been taken for the payment of fines.
53) Amos 2:12 - Israel is condemned for forcing Nazarites to drink wine.
54) Micah 2:11 - Israelites are eager to follow false teachers who prophesy plenty of intoxicating drinks.
55) Nahum 1:10 - The drunkards of Nineveh will be destroyed by God.
56) Habakkuk 2:5 - A man is betrayed by wine.
57) Habakkuk 2:15 - Woe to him that gives his neighbor drink.
58) Habakkuk 2:16 - Drinking leads to shame.
59) Matthew 24:48-51 - A drinking servant is unprepared for his Lord’s return.
60) Luke 1:15 - John the Baptist drank neither grape juice nor wine.
61) Luke 12:45 - Christ warned against drunkenness.
62) Luke 21:34 - Drunkenness will cause a person not to be ready for the Lord’s return.
63) Romans 13:13 - Do not walk in drunkenness or immorality.
64) Romans 14:21 - Do not do anything that will hurt your testimony as a believer.
65) 1 Corinthians 5:11 - If a Christian brother is a drinker, do not associate with him.
66) 1 Corinthians 6:10 - Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God
67) Galatians 5:21 - Acts of the sinful nature, such as drunkenness, will prohibit a person from inheriting the kingdom of God.
68) Ephesians 5:18 - In contrast to being drunk with wine, the believer is to be filled with the Spirit.
69) 1 Thessalonians 5:6-7 - Christians are to be alert and self-controlled, belonging to the day. Drunkards belong to the night and darkness.
70) 1 Timothy 3:2-3 - Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.
71) 1 Timothy 3:8 - Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.
72) 1 Timothy 3:11 - Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.
73) Titus 1:7-8 - An overseer is to be disciplined.
74) Titus 2:2-3 - The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine.
75) 1 Peter 4:3-4 - The past life of drunkenness and carousing has no place in the Christian’s life.
But you never answered my question: Is yeast a gift from God?
That isn’t what I asked you. You said that “fermentation is a picture of sin” and I asked you where in Holy Scripture it said that. All you gave me were admonitions not to get drunk. “Getting drunk” isn’t the same thing as “fermentation is a picture of sin.” Where is it in Holy Scripture?
It’s a byproduct of nature but all of nature is corrupt. You and I are corrupt. The world is corrupt. That is why we need a Savior.
The bread Jesus would have eaten was unleavened bread, again, for a reason.
No, that’s not all that’s in there. Did you read every single verse?
I caution you against holding onto the Old Testament too tightly, because it can blind you to the fullness of the gospel and Jesus' all-encompassing grace. Once the grace is given, stumbling blocks fall away, because we join together out of a love for Christ and not an adherence to legalism.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosher_wine
Alcohol, wines, strong drink aren't the sin, it's the abuse or overuse that is the sin.
Don't forget, Jesus was a Jew. He participated in the celebrations and festivals just like any other Jew.
But he was also our Lord and Savior. Not just for the Jews, but for all in the world! So let's check out this article as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramental_wine
In the end, what really matters is one's relationship with Him! We're all screwed up sinners one way or another. Praise God our salvation does not come from ourselves or our own actions, but from Him who died for us and rose again! Praise God!
Yes, I did and I did not see the words “fermentation is a picture of sin.”
I quoted extensively from the Old Testament AND the New Testament. It is NOT “legalism” to read the Scriptures and seek to learn from them and to obey them. It is what God wants for you as a Christian.
You are NOT supposed to go the way of the lost world, with social drinking, committing adultery, foul language, looking at porn, etc. How often does drinking alcohol cause problems for people? They have even a few sips of wine and their judgement is impaired. It says right in the Bible that Christians are not even to socialize with drinkers! That’s not “legalism”, that’s a commandment to church goers in this age of grace.
Now I'm going to judge. You should consider seeing a professional. Your interpretation of scripture is warped, and it is that - using scripture to achieve your own ends - that will condemn you.
God have mercy on your soul. You and I are done.
The word rapture isn’t in the Bible either but the doctrine is there. The TEACHING is there that fermentation is a picture of sin. Jesus did not drink wine. He only ate unleavened bread. Fermentation is a picture of sin because it’s a breaking down process causing cells to change, just like your body breaks down because you are a sinner and you eventually die (”The wages of sin is death”). When people are dying they often give out a smell of alcohol — their bodies are breaking down.
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