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(Phoenix) Gun Dealer Accused Of Selling To Cartels
cbsnews.com ^ | March 9, 2009 | Ben Tracy

Posted on 03/10/2009 4:48:41 PM PDT by kellynla

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To: kellynla
"They get $100 for their trouble, and the trafficker will take the gun down to Mexico and sell it for exponentially more than they pay here," says ATFBATFE agent Peter Forcelli.

Wouldn't it be cheaper, and more efficient, to just bribe a few customs officials and import AKs by the container. On the world market those, and probably some (Iranian, Chinese) M-16/M-4 knockoffs are cheaper than semiautomatic AKs and ARs in the US. It's not like these thugs don't have smuggling skills.

41 posted on 03/10/2009 9:32:36 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: kellynla
As many as 2,000 firearms are believed to cross the border into Mexico every day. And they are often assault weapons, Tracy reports.

That's got to be the biggest PoC lie in the whole article.

42 posted on 03/10/2009 9:34:14 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: kellynla
Check out the link to the story and see what See B.S. would have you believe this guy was selling out of his store.

(Looks like an M240, 7.62x51 belt fed machine gun, although it could be the FN MAG 58, from which it is derived)

See B.S. living up to it's name, and working hand in glove with the dregs of federal "law enforcment", the BATFE.

43 posted on 03/10/2009 9:46:46 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato

Believe what you like, but your little Egyptian gun dealer was no “Boy Scout.” And was one of 6600 licensed gun dealers along the Mexican border.

From an earlier article:

“Over the two years leading up to his arrest last May, he sold more than 700 weapons of the kind currently sought by drug dealers in Mexico, including 515 AK-47 rifles and one .50 caliber rifle that can penetrate an engine block or bulletproof glass, the ATF said.

Based on the store’s records and the statements of some defendants, investigators estimate at least 600 of those weapons were smuggled to Mexico. So far, the Mexican authorities have seized seven of the Kalashnikov-style rifles from gunmen for the Beltrán Leyva cartel who had battled with the police.”

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/02/26/america/26borders.php?page=2


44 posted on 03/10/2009 10:00:14 PM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: kellynla

I got a feelin......that for the next 60 days, everytime anything larger than firecracker goes off, it will be front page news and linked somehow to how out of control the U.S. “Assault Weapons” laws are.

AND how they desperately need fixin so that we all become convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt ....that...................................................................

“A failure to act, and act now, will turn crisis into a catastrophe.”


45 posted on 03/10/2009 10:09:32 PM PDT by TomasUSMC ( FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM)
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To: TomasUSMC
“if” BOTH borders had been SECURED after 9/11,
this wouldn't be happening...but Mexico got it's peso's worth in GWB and he left us with one hellofa mess to clean up...sooner or later we are gonna have to “take out the trash” and between the muzzies & illegals; it's gonna be one hellofa “field day”
46 posted on 03/10/2009 10:19:01 PM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: kellynla
“Over the two years leading up to his arrest last May, he sold more than 700 weapons of the kind currently sought by drug dealers in Mexico, including 515 AK-47 rifles and one .50 caliber rifle that can penetrate an engine block or bulletproof glass, the ATF said.

Gee, a gun dealer, with a store and everything, sold 700 intermediate power carbines over two years. Who'd a thunk it. I bet every purchaser passed the instant background check. But of "of the type sought", is pure BS. Why would "drug dealers" want semi-auto clones of AKs, when they could just as easily smuggle full auto, real AKs, bought for less money?

Now the .50 might be something a drug gang might want, but notice there is no evidence that any of those 700 weapons or the .50 actually went to Mexico. Of course even if some did, that's not the fault of the dealer who made a sale *approved* by the government.

47 posted on 03/10/2009 10:58:47 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: kellynla; Travis McGee; Squantos

juxatapose this with how frigging cheap full auto firearms are in most 3rd world countries where there has been recent serious insurrection

why can’t Mexicans get weapons cheaper from Colombian FARC or maybe even the Paras thrown in their dope planes..no shortage of nice toys in Colombia, Salvador, Newly Sandy Nicaragua, Guatemala, corrupt military in Honduras....and so forth

personally I think the BATF may be embellishing abit in job justification


48 posted on 03/10/2009 11:09:58 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: raptor29

From the link posted by Kellyna:

And it adds: “Furthermore, these terrorist groups have established multimillion [dollar] contracts in order to sell weapons to Mexican and Colombian narcotics traffickers,” that are commercialized by “criminal providers from Yemen, Kuwait, Syria, Argentina, Brazil and Bulgaria.”


49 posted on 03/11/2009 7:46:39 AM PDT by antisocial (Texas SCV - Deo Vindice)
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To: kellynla
A .357 Magnum will penetrate an engine block. Sporterized AK's in the US are more expensive than getting the same rifle, but full auto, through Central American smuggling channels.

Blatant lies and hyperbole are not enough to pass my "sniff" test.

50 posted on 03/11/2009 7:54:36 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Te odeo, interfice te cochleare)
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To: El Gato

I can’t imagine a Mara toting a rifle that weighs over half what he does.


51 posted on 03/11/2009 7:57:35 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Te odeo, interfice te cochleare)
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To: Dead Corpse
Well then EVERYONE is lying...because gun running to Mexico has been going on long before you & I were born... and well documented .

So, believe what you like...it's still a free country.

But in the meantime, I will continue to fight for secure borders and they can keep their drugs & we'll just keep our guns, thank you!

52 posted on 03/11/2009 8:22:53 AM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
According to other reports, Iknadosian is a native of Egypt.

There are Armenians in Egypt just as there are in every other Mideast country. (i.e. all over the former Ottoman Empire.)

53 posted on 03/11/2009 8:56:07 AM PDT by Redcloak ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: kellynla
Well then EVERYONE is lying...because gun running to Mexico has been going on long before you & I were born... and well documented

No doubt, but that is not the same thing as the drug cartels and gangs getting them. They have their own, cheaper and better, sources.

It might be folks wanting some protection *against* the druggies.

Before all our restrictions on firearms for our own people, there's no doubt lots of guns went to Mexico, and handguns as well as some semi-auto rifles likely still do, since they are very difficult to obtain legally there as well.

But all those full autos aren't coming from US guns shops or gun shows. If some are coming from the US, they are stolen, or otherwise diverted, from the military and police.

54 posted on 03/11/2009 9:06:08 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Dead Corpse
I can’t imagine a Mara toting a rifle that weighs over half what he does.

I can, guys with a .50 can't move fast anyway. Besides not all Mexicans are small. The father of one of our exchange students from southern Mexico, and her brother, are not small men, in fact they are bigger than I am, and even when I went into the AF, I weighed just over 200 lbs @ 5'11". (I weigh "just a little more" now, and am marginally shorter).

55 posted on 03/11/2009 9:10:11 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato

like I said...believe what you like


56 posted on 03/11/2009 9:31:29 AM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: kellynla
And how much more evidence do we need that the drug War mentality is being used to curtail other freedom? Namely RKBA?

Seal the border and end the trillion dollar war on a $.05 weed and the cartel's would go belly up no matter who sold them what firearms.

57 posted on 03/11/2009 10:23:08 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Te odeo, interfice te cochleare)
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To: El Gato
I know that. I worked in Austin, TX for 7 years. I had buddies down there that were 6'2" plus. knew one guy up here on an H1B from Mexico City. Half-German. You could have dropped him in the middle of Berlin and you'd think him a native until you heard him speak.

However, every one of those little "army ants" I've seen has been an emaciated little twerp. I was alluding to the MS-13 bangers you hear about in the news.

58 posted on 03/11/2009 10:27:55 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Te odeo, interfice te cochleare)
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To: kellynla
What makes more sense? A Drug Cartel risking the border to buy a $20,000 Class III M16? Or getting a Chinese knock off of the same rifle for less than $1000?

Think about it...

59 posted on 03/11/2009 10:29:31 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Te odeo, interfice te cochleare)
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To: kellynla
You never hear about who the biggest supplier of assault weapons to the Mexican drug cartels really is. Try pointing the accusatory finger at the U.S. government itself. After all they are the ones arming the police at every level in the Mexican government, the military police organizations and even some politicians.

The supplied and trained Mexican personnel then sell or rent out their U.S. trained and supplied services and weapons to the highest paying drug cartels. No, your government doesn't want you and me making that connection. That would hamper their efforts to ban the guns that our own legal citizens buy to protect themselves. It damages their credibility in the U.S.

60 posted on 03/11/2009 11:10:49 AM PDT by Ron H. (I believe in and practice the 4 Gs : God, gold, guns and a garden)
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