Posted on 02/20/2009 10:27:09 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
If he hasn't traded in 13 years, then he hasn't paid any of those insurance fees...right? HOw does that work?
It’s taken from the marketplace as a whole to protect people to a minimal extent in cases like this. It’s not institution/trader specific - it’s like flood insurance.
You said — “I endorse a “Jubilee Year” in whcich all debts are forgien and we reset the economy.”
If only the rest that came with it would be observed, too. It’s not a “magic formula” but it comes with recognizing the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as the Supreme One of the Universe and the Creator God (which is acknowledged in our Declaration of Independence, too).
I know that we can *count on it* — that the Jubilee Year will be observed during the Millennial Reign of Jesus, the Messiah of Israel, during His time here on earth, when He is ruling and reigning over the nations of the world (including, of course, the United States). Then we’ll see all aspects that go along with the Jubilee Year being observed, too.
At the rate the world is going now (and according to the prophecies listed in the Bible) that time is not that far away (just a mere months or years and probably not more than a decade, if even that much). We can’t know exactly when that time for Jesus’ return is, to set up His world-wide rule over all the nations — but we do have indictors that are matching up right now.
Look for Him to come soon...
You sure about that?
Would they be entitled to recover only the principle they put in up to $500,000. Or any balance that had been reported to them including false gains?
Wouldn’t investors with over $500,000 share in recovered assets only to the extent such recovered assets exceed the $500,000 liability. In other words, recovered assets would first go to repay the insurance for the $500,000 and then only if recoveries exceed all claims is there anything to split.
related thread:
Full Lists of Madoff Clients, Brokers, Employees
**************************EXCERPT **********************
Post #3.....
Mind boggling when you think about the fact that there was a $1M minimum investment.
see #26....Looks like everybody gets Half of their initial investment back....bet that fund isn’t BIG ENOUGH!
You asked — “You sure about that?”
I’m not sure which part (or all of it) that you’re asking about, so I’ll start with the most important.
Jesus, the Messiah of Israel is coming again. And it’s soon according to the timetable that the nation of Israel gives us. And this is tied in with the Muslim nations (who vastly outnumber the people of Israel) dedicated to eliminating Israel as a nation and as a people. That will never change, because they will never give up on that evil religion of Islam. So, the closer they get to actually carrying off their dedicated efforts to eliminate Israel, the closer we are to Jesus returning, because He is the One who puts a stop to this. So, that part, yes, I’m sure.
There will never be peace over there, and around the world, with both the Jews and the Muslims in existence at the same time. One or the other must go and be totally eliminated for there to be peace in the world. When Jesus returns, He personally puts an end to all Israel’s enemies and kills millions upon millions of the Muslim adherents and destroys, totally (without a trace left behind) all of the faith of Islam and anything to do with it, including those countries dedicated to destroying Israel. Then peace comes when *all* the enemies have been totally destroyed and eliminated.
Will Jesus, the Messiah of Israel, rule and reign over the nations during His 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom (and also over the United States). Yes, of that part, I’m sure, too. As to whether the United States will still be in existence (in a few years or more), on that part, I “think” so and hope so.
On the Jubilee Year being observed during the Millennial Kingdom of Jesus, the Messiah of Israel, that would be a yes, too. That’s because Israel is the Kingdom that Jesus establishes as the ruling Kingdom over all the others, in the world. He rules from there. And this is the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies about the Jews and Israel that were never fulfilled, because Israel failed in what they were supposed to do. When Jesus, the Messiah of Israel comes, He will establish and fulfill those prophecies of Israel that we have in the Old Testament. There will be people, all over the world, who will come under the jurisdiction and rule of Israel, and they live as ordinary people during that Millennial reign, having families, building homes, engaging in agriculture and other relevant societal necessities for the survival of the people on this planet. It will be under the rule that was established in the Old Testament, with Israel to completely fulfill what it was supposed to do, back then. All will not be complete until this is all done.
So, I hope that answers your question...
Jesus came to redeem individuals, and that "Hope and Change" came from the bottom up in societies.
One reason why the Southern Hemisphere, where there is an astounding growth in Christianity, will be better off in the long run than the increasingly agnostic and pagan Northern Hemisphere.
Maranatha!
Madoff "investors" whining they were screwed-over.......yet they made a lot of money over the years.......and took out a heckava lot more than they put in. Clearly, some of the "pigeons" were in on the scam.
Some investors gave Madoff AN ASTOUNDING $100-500 million to "invest" for years and years. Some investors wrote PERSONAL checks to Madoff's subrosa spinoff vehicle that was not listed on the Securities Exchange (tax evasion modus?) THAT ISN'T COVERED BY THE SIPC----NO WAY.
NOT EVEN ONE INVESTOR blew the whistle on Madoff.....all accusations of fraud were made by objective analysts outside Madoff's scam operation. And when fraud raised it's ugly head, Madoff and his investors scared off accusers. As Laura Goldman wrote---whistle-blowers were accused of being anti-Semitic---a very scary charge.
The now-famous 2005 Markopolis Report to the SEC raised fraud issues and yet the SEC "turned a blind eye."
It must be considered that the SEC backed-off investigating Madoff NOT because they are incompetent, but because SEC investigators risked losing their jobs if they zeroed in on Madoff. CAREER KILLER In the ranks of L/E, it is NOT advisable to imply people of Jewish heritage are doing something illegal---even moreso, it is a career killer to suggest it. FBI agents have been lacerated and condemned----even losing their jobs. Madoff's concentrating
Madoff seemed to know L/E dared not suggest he was doing something illegal and he may have colluded to use scary charges of anti-Semitism to forestall investigations into his operation.
Madoff had a lot to lose if he was investigated. He knew he was operating a fraud----a fraud that subsidized his lavish lifestyle; posh homes all over the world, several yachts, private planes, country club memberships, and purchases that included pricey watches and jewelry.
When I heard the news of Bernard Madoff’s arrest, I breathed a sigh of relief. “Thank God, I dodged that bullet” was my first thought. For sure, there was no gloating on my part. Anyone, who has been in the brokerage business for a long time, has been preyed on by con artists more than once.
As a broker, you try your best to avoid them, but there is always one that slips through where your guard is down. Madoff and my paths crossed in Palm Beach over 10 years ago. We were both scouring for clients there, albeit on different rungs of the social and economic ladder. My office was the lunch counter at Green’s Pharmacy while Bernard’s was the much grander Palm Beach Country Club.
Hearing whispers of his investment prowess, I approached “Uncle Bernie” one day and asked to meet him to discuss referring clients to him. Madoff’s clients bragged that he showed consistent returns of 10-18% each year and rarely had a down month.
At the meeting, Bernie, known as the Jewish T-bill, was very charming and low key. Bernard, the former chairman of the NASDAQ stock exchange, did not want to answer questions about his investment business and strategy.
He only grudgingly admitted that he employed a split conversion strategy that used both put and call options. I did not know what to make of his opacity.
I was discomfited by his saying how lucky that I was that he allowed me to invest with him.
The structure of Madoff’s investment also concerned me. Similar investments would have been established as a hedge fund with a separate custodian of the assets. The general partner of a hedge fund takes a management fee and a percent of the profits. Mr. Madoff insisted on keeping the assets in house at his own brokerage firm, but only charged commissions, which meant a lower payout for him.
Madoff, always the salesman, assuaged my doubts about the investment structure. “I make up for the lower fees with the additional volume of investments that my fee structure attracts.”
The consistency in returns, the small size of the auditing firm, and the structure of the investment were troubling, but they were not the deal breaker for me. Since my office had previously been in the same building as the Philadelphia Stock and Options Exchange, I knew many of the employees of the exchange and leading market makers.
When I called them, all of them said that they knew Bernie but did not trade with him. Even though he said that he traded his options over the counter, it still seemed strange to me that none of the giants in the tight-knit options world traded with him. After 45 minutes of detective work, I passed on the investment.
Even with the red flags raised on the investment, I struggled with turning down the investment opportunity. I was worried that my cautiousness was causing me to miss a great opportunity to earn lots of money. The product that Bernie Madoff had “created” would have been as easy to sell as ice water on a hot summer day.
After turning down the opportunity, I frequently encountered clients of Bernard Madoff. Most had the lion’s share of their assets invested with him.
My suggestions to diversify their assets fell on deaf ears. Sadly, many Jews believed in Bernie Madoff more than they believed in God and were just as unlikely to forsake him.
Even though the drumbeat of rumors about Bernie’s business eventually grew louder in the financial community, there was nothing that I could do about it. I could not take on someone with the stature of Bernie without proof in black and white.
I wasn’t the only one with doubts. In 2001, Barrons and MAR Hedge Fund Report wrote scathing reviews of Bernie’s investment business.
The title of the MAR article did not pull any punches — “Madoff tops the charts; Skeptics ask how.” Barron’s was also hard-hitting. “The recent MAR Hedge report, for example, cited more than a dozen hedge fund professionals, including current and former Madoff traders, who questioned why no one had been able to duplicate Madoff’s returns using this strategy.
Likewise, three option strategists at major investment banks told Barron’s they couldn’t understand how Madoff churns out such numbers. Adds a former Madoff investor: “Anybody who’s a seasoned hedge-fund investor knows the split-strike conversion is not the whole story. To take it at face value is a bit naïve.”
These articles gave me an excuse to contact Madoff’s clients again.
Instead of being thanked for sending them the articles, I was attacked. “How dare you say anything bad about Bernie.” Some dismissed the attacks on Bernie as anti-Semitism.
Several of those who received my mailing asked me questions. Still, even though I planted the seeds of suspicion, they did not grow. Most decided to continue investing with Bernie. They told me that they did not want to give up a good thing. They did not believe that the music would stop and they would be left without a chair.
Now that the music has stopped, many of Madoff’s clients are finally singing my name. Unfortunately, there is nothing that I can do for them now. I wish that I could say that this type of fraud would not happen again, but unfortunately I can’t. Now that Bernie has proved how easy is to do, one can be sure that con artists will be falling over themselves to imitate him.
Stanley Chais offers remarks at the Weizmann Institute of Science.
THE FINANCIAL AND TAX-EXEMPT PHILANTHROPIC LABYRINTH MADOFF USED TO RAKE IN BILLIONS---
MAP IS INTERACTIVE AT WEB SITE
WEB SITE http://news.muckety.com/2008/12/28/madoff-used-social-family-networks-to-rake-in-billions/9031
Amen to that. Hopefully this economic disaster is something to move people to getting the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob into their lives, by way of Jesus, the Messiah of Israel and accepting His sacrifice for their own salvation.
Many times, that’s exactly why God sends judgments like these, upon nations..., to get people to “wake up” to God and the Messiah of Israel and their need for His Salvation that He offers everyone, anyone who will accept it...
Yep, one good thing about a "bad" economy(assuming this one isn't just some globalist playing monopoly)...it flushes all the rats out of their holes. And if the MSM actually did REAL journalism, instead of having their heads up zeros rump, they more than likely would find the majority of the rodents to be... demoRAT.
Thanks for adding that.
You are correct. SIPC is an insurance agency and as such should have the first dibs on recovered funds up to the amount of its liabilities. Anything in excess of $500K per plaintiff in recovered funds, if any, is outside of its authority and will be distributed to plaintiffs through legal process. Deficit of the recovered funds will be covered by the insurance fund up to $500K per eligible plaintiff account.
So far, as I understand, there was a claim of about $650M recovered, so that’s enough to pay out 1300 accounts, assuming they all had “balances” over $500K.
On this one, I agree with you - it will crash the system, when it becomes clear how many financial instruments don’t actually exist.
Under the legal principle of “fraudulent conveyance,” one cannot profit from a fraud.
Every investor was given monthly statements showing the supposed “growth” of the investment.....some rolled it over, some put more in, etc.
But those that took “profits” out——have to give the money back...........legally, one cannot profit from a fraud.
Yes, “fraudulent conveyance” is going to be or, at least, should be a large part of this mess. But that’s a part of the “recovery of funds” legal process.
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