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Life's Irreducible Structure (DEBATE THREAD)
CMI ^ | Alex Williams

Posted on 01/12/2009 7:23:26 AM PST by GodGunsGuts

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To: metmom
That would have been in the initial created kinds. There will be no front loaded genes in species which exist today. Many characteristics would have been lost with the kinds isolation from each other so the genomes are no longer loaded.

So future evolution is impossible?

681 posted on 01/14/2009 8:13:25 AM PST by js1138
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To: tpanther
That always occurs...perhaps you can come up with what’s “injecting religion into science” we’re always hearing about from this article?

Can you show me where "this article" always talks about "injecting religion into science"? I didn't see that as a constant theme in the article at all.

682 posted on 01/14/2009 8:16:34 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: LeGrande

You mean for creationists argument is not evidence because it’s all we EVER see from the left.

Ignoring this and projecting isn’t evidence.


683 posted on 01/14/2009 8:17:34 AM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: DoctorMichael

I rest my case.

You should get that stranglehold the cult of evolution has on you looked into!


684 posted on 01/14/2009 8:19:54 AM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: tacticalogic

See post 676...THAT always occurs.


685 posted on 01/14/2009 8:22:13 AM PST by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: LeGrande

Awe.


686 posted on 01/14/2009 8:22:47 AM PST by bvw
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To: tpanther
See post 676...THAT always occurs.

And all the exchanges that led up to it.

687 posted on 01/14/2009 8:30:02 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: js1138
The concept as I stated is that because we don't know the function is not evidence that it has no function. Ignorance is not evidence.

Experience should be a caution against writing off any part of the human body as useless or junk. The thymus gland being just one such example. But still evolutionists dismiss ear muscles and and our appendix and “pseudo” genes
as useless or vestigial.

The thread on pheromones is pretty much worthless with childish off color comments but one part of the posted article was worth repeating:

“Problem is, the effects of pheromones are thought to be subconscious — meaning that if we do communicate using them, we sure don't know it.

It's also hard to know what these pheromones might be and how we sense them, so researchers understand little about them.”

Indeed.

688 posted on 01/14/2009 8:37:39 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
Speaking of Polanyi, here is a quote from him

Nice quote mining. Let's let the gentleman continue, shall we?

And of course there is always the possibility that this may in fact be just the right thing to do. This may be precisely one of those cases when one has to disregard exceptions to start with and leave them for later consideration. His emotion, born of an intuition which penetrates deeper than the day-to-day evidence, may be quite right, and his correct procedure may be to persevere in following its guidance, even against the apparent evidence.
He's saying that scientists are people too, not just data-gathering machines, and have emotional reactions to the results of their activities. It's up to the scientist to decide how to incorporate those responses into his work. So what makes their results worth paying attention to? "If his statements are confirmed by others, in whatever form and in whatever manner, even though quite unthought of at the time when he first propounded them, he will claim to have been right." [emphasis added]
689 posted on 01/14/2009 8:41:35 AM PST by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: tacticalogic
I think that leaves us back at disagreements over the semantics of taxonomy (species/kinds, etc.).

True. I tend to think that Eukaryotes are the same.

690 posted on 01/14/2009 8:49:06 AM PST by LeGrande (I once heard a smart man say that you canÂ’t reason someone out of something that they didnÂ’t reaso)
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To: tacticalogic

[[Then I don’t understand your objections to scientists trying to find an explanation of the fossil record as the result of natural processes.]]

Not sure why you’re stuck on this issue? I never said that I object

[[So do other theories that don’t agree with ID, or the particular theories you’ve presented.]]

I’m not really aware of any other plausible theories? It would seem that a naturalistic theory is really the only alternative?


691 posted on 01/14/2009 8:52:35 AM PST by CottShop (uite imite weallite)
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To: YHAOS

[[I admit that I sometimes come up short on Christian forbearance (I’ll turn the other check, but often I don’t keep it turned long enough). ]]

Not me, I’m a saint- The picture of patience.


692 posted on 01/14/2009 8:55:18 AM PST by CottShop (uite imite weallite)
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To: js1138
“Meanwhile, mainstream science continues to look for functions, even while I doubt that much will be found.”

That's a very, very interesting thought. Why do you doubt much will be found? We surely haven't reached the end of the line of understanding genes and functions.
I can pose a question worthy of investigation with one side of my brain tied behind my back. To wit:
Does our olfactory system affect our immune system and our feelings to those closely related to us generically? Or
Might these so-called inactive genes be reactivated?

If, If the research is done there is still a lot to learn.

693 posted on 01/14/2009 9:00:13 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode

[[Speaking of Polanyi, here is a quote from him...
“The Bible says: ‘Correct a wise man and he will love you.’ The scientist ought to be delighted when his theory, supported by a series of previous observations, appears to collapse in the light of his latest experiments. If he was wrong, then he has just escaped establishing a falsehood and been given a timely warning to turn in a new direction. But that is not how he feels. He is dejected and confused, and can only think of possible ways of explaining away the obstructive observation.”]]

Roh Roh! Now you’re in for it- You’re goign to get accused of ... gasp ... “Quote Mining” Lol-


694 posted on 01/14/2009 9:01:59 AM PST by CottShop (uite imite weallite)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Another 'Meta'-article thats woefully short on any actual work but full of hubris and blather.

In Science, as in any other endeavor, one should strive for a lot of......

Laboratory

......and little of......

Laboratory....

.....in the......

.....Laboratory.....

...and let the experiments do the talking, not the naval-gazing.

695 posted on 01/14/2009 9:10:48 AM PST by DoctorMichael (Creationists on the internet: The Ignorant, amplifying the Stupid.)
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To: metmom

[[If humans don’t need it, why are the genes there?

If they evoloved for a reason, why aren’t they being used?]]

Can you imagine a man and woman tryign to date with hypersensitive smelling?

“Ewww- You stink!”

“No! YOU Stink”

“No! You Do!”

Our species would have died out a long time ago- That’s my theory and I’m sticking to it


696 posted on 01/14/2009 9:14:02 AM PST by CottShop (uite imite weallite)
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To: js1138; metmom
So future evolution is impossible?

Only devolution is possible under their hypothesis.

697 posted on 01/14/2009 9:18:32 AM PST by LeGrande (I once heard a smart man say that you canÂ’t reason someone out of something that they didnÂ’t reaso)
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To: DoctorMichael

Michael- I’ve reported your post- either step it up, quit acting like you do, and either contribute to the threads and stay on topic, or stay out, or get banned- which you choose is up to you. You do NOTHING but hop into threads with your petty little insults, and contribute absolutely nothign to the threads but childish rhettoric. GGG asked that peopel keep on topic, refrain from the very type posts you have posted, and apparently you aren’t civil enough to respect his wishes- and as such Your posts have been reported.


698 posted on 01/14/2009 9:20:37 AM PST by CottShop (uite imite weallite)
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode

Excellent find. Thank you!

PS Got a link for that? I’d love to add it to my collection!


699 posted on 01/14/2009 9:22:58 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: CottShop

And I’ve reported you too for the threatening manner in which I’m treated when I point out that this is a ‘Meta’-article from an obscure internet group that adds no real data whatsoever to the collective body of knowledge and therefore should be treated with the highest amount of suspicion.


700 posted on 01/14/2009 9:28:32 AM PST by DoctorMichael (Creationists on the internet: The Ignorant, amplifying the Stupid.)
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