Posted on 01/08/2009 4:25:05 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
Don’t know about where you live,
Around these parts, all the Obama stickers are on imports.
Bush / Cheney stickers when you see them still, are on American cars.
The correlation used to be near 100%. Republican = American Car. Democrat = Import.
That was how things made sense. This “sell America out” Toyota Republican thing is just plain creepy.
Rather than being insulting and obnoxious, why don’t you simply prove me wrong? Show me an organization that has a unionized workforce that has never done anything ever to deserve it.
You won’t because you can’t.
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I am very familiar with how management lies to workers but how would you objectively judge such a thing? Doesn’t it come down to a matter of personal opinion in the end? I made the mistake once of hiring my own brother to work for me. I made it very plain to him that he would be starting over at the bottom doing something that took me ten years to learn, he insisted that was okay. Well, he hadn’t worked six months before he was complaining about his pay, even though I started him off slightly higher than what I had promised and had done everything I could to make life easier for him.
I will freely admit that when I have worked on someone else’s payroll I have nearly always thought I was being taken advantage of, it seems to be human nature.
Wow. Who would have thought that the US is the best country in the world to invest your money? Money flows to where it's treated best and it takes a lot of investment to grow our $14 trillion locomotive for the world economy.
I like Chuck too but maybe things aren't as bas as he'd like us to believe. It looks like gloom and doom has become a pandemic. Given our history, I'm glad to be investing aggressively now while the doomers are driving down the price of everything.
Economic treason, is the problem. Buy American!
LOL! So if we'd just buy more cars from GM, Chrysler and Ford they'll suddenly become profitable even though their legacy costs are what's killing them?
Good luck with that.
That's for sure. Negativism is bad not only because it's toxic and saps energy, but something worse is that nobody listens when the situation actually does become serious. Y2K, global warming, why should a $7 trillion drop in private assets matter?
Maybe for the original union. However, what we have today is a joke. And, as far as I'm concerned, government workers should never be able to unionize.
I can; any government with union workers.
I still proudly use my two old Homelite chain saws, they are as rugged as anything ever built but most users now don’t know that there once was a real American made Homelite chain saw that was used to cut big trees. Current Homelite models are what I call toy saws.
If I wanted a new chain saw I would have to buy a saw made in some other country, but my two Homelites are likely to be kicking strong long after I am gone if anyone still wants to use them.
Right. Think of what it would be like if Congress went on strike and shut down for months and--
Hmmm...
> I can; any government with union workers.
Shyeah right. Ever worked for the government? Obviously you haven’t. Any government department that has a union has definitely done things to deserve it: most government department managers are lazy self-serving tyrants who treat their underlings like crap and who play petty office politics rather than do their jobs. Their staff unionize as a matter of self-defense, and so they should.
I’d say you’re the one who doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Just alot of noise.
> Maybe for the original union. However, what we have today is a joke. And, as far as I’m concerned, government workers should never be able to unionize.
Why? That’s contrary to free market principles. You should be allowed to make a contract with anybody you like. And you should be able to freely associate with anybody you like. Trade Unions are consistent with these two principles.
It doesn't stop there. In Econ 1A, "pure capitalism" is defined as a market where neither any one buyer nor any one seller can affect the market price. In buying and selling labor, we need the same number of man-hour buyers as we got sellers. That's why we need lots of unions and lots of employers, so neither side can control of the price of labor.
>> I’d say you’re the one who doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Just alot of noise.
My apologies for bad manners: I mistook you for a different poster who had suggested that I didn’t know what I was talking about.
Please excuse this misdirected salvo. I would keep the rest of my posting stet, but perhaps adjust it for tone, now that I have realized my mistake.
I know exactly what I'm talking about. I am a government worker. The only unions I've ever seen in my 10 years plus are bitchy, whiny unions who don't know how good they really have things over the private sector.
Don't like the job, look elsewhere. Always has worked for me.
As an American, my view of unions is different from yours. Unions, at one time, served a very useful purpose. However, companies today, if they have learned anything, know you can't continue to treat employees like crap and keep employees around.
On the flip side, rather than make workplaces safer, more efficient, and negotiate for better pay, unions today seem to have a penchant for asking for more than any group of workers should be worth.
I have experience with three separate government unions. The mentality is all the same. These folks, while ignoring the fact that most are vastly over-paid for their particular jobs, when compared to the private sector, often complain long and loud about how their pay doesn't measure up. Government workers get ten paid holidays per year, whereas the private sector employees get six. Government employees, at virtually all levels of government have better health benefits, leave benefits, and retirement benefits than their equivalents in the private sector.
To top it off, many, not all, government employees in all levels of government also seem to have mistaken "public servant" for "lord of my dominion."
Yeah, the UAW and Teamsters are such good examples of free-market enterprise.
How are trade unions consistent with free association? If I have to join a union just to get a job in my area of expertise, how is that free association?
> How are trade unions consistent with free association?
It should not be against the law for a number of likeminded employees to associate and collectively bargain with their employer. That part is “Freedom of Association”.
> If I have to join a union just to get a job in my area of expertise, how is that free association?
That part isn’t free association. That’s the “closed shop” and IMO it is an odious concept.
That said, it is not unlike the employer subcontracting the labor to another organization — in this case a union — in much the same way as they would subcontract their building security to a security company. Conceptually these are similar scenarios.
Allowing that analogy, if you want to provide security to that company you need to be a member of the security company’s staff. Similarly, if you want to build cars there, you need to belong to the automotive union that has the collective contract for labor there.
So no, the Closed Shop isn’t about Free Association, but it is arguably about the freedom to make contracts and agreements.
--and all unions were banned by Stalin and Hitler. Hey, let's agree that perfection doesn't exist in real life and citing extremes is pointless. Not all labor reps are thugs. People who work out of temp-agencies get the same service as a union. It's a good process.
That is one good thing about government unions, they cannot force you to join them as a condition of working for the government.
Yet.
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