Posted on 01/05/2009 4:54:34 AM PST by Kaslin
wardaddy, I am 72, and I attended many BG crusades, including one in 1945 at Soldier Field in Chicago (although it was a Youth For Christ crusade, and BG at the time was a young traveling representative for YFC), and a seminal one in Columbia, SC in 1949/50 when I committed my life to Christ.
And sarasota, I attended BJU in 1956/57 and in fact, was a member of Dr. Bob’s quartet, and we traveled around with him.
It was in 1957 that Dr. Bob put it to the students in chapel that you either “stand with Dr. Bob or Billy Graham”, and he made us make our commitment that day, at that moment. As one who had great admiration for BG and from a family that supported him in many ways, I did not stand. I left BJU in February of 1957, not entirely because of that, but it certainly had an effect on me.
For both of you, BG’s error, according to Dr. Bob, was that he was too “inclusive”, much the same accusation that is leveled at RW today.
For an historical perspective, which both of you seem to lack, with all due respect, it is available in Wikipedia, under Bob Jones. Considerably down in the lengthy article is BJ’s spat with BG.
And before you dismiss BJ Sr. as a crackpot (and you won’t get much of an argument from me on that), consider that BJU was then, and still is, a powerful force in evangelical, fundamentalist Christianity. BJU grads are in pastorates all over the country. As such, Bob Jones had a significant impact on fundamentalists during that period. It is obvious that BG prevailed.
Billy Graham is without a doubt the foremost evangelist of our day, and survives to this day as a living example of propriety.
However, even on this very thread you will see those who see fit to criticize him.
Best Wishes to both of you.
I will have to plead ignorance about Bob Jones, all I know is the school.
*Mississipian here
I think James Robison also came around abit to our church SBC.
I came down front one night when he was really on fire working the youngsters in the front row. Does any one firebreath anymore?
“firebreathe???”
Please, I’m a (Northern) Baptist!!!LOL
you know the old you better accept Jesus as your savior or else
which is true actually but it’s about the delivery
Cotton Mather on a really fired up day
I have no problem with anyone’s spiritual path (except terrorist spondored ones), so you won’t get an argument from me. I enjoy Luis Palau as much as anyone these days.
PING!!
Good article. America in a moral crisis, the church in a theological crisis... hmm... wonder if there’s a connection...
Barack Hussein Obama is a wicked man. When Rick Warren exposed the deceitfulness of Obama at the Saddleback forum but then gladly. eagerly lent himself to the inauguration celebration of this wicked man, we were shown a disturbing side of Rick Warren. Spiritual discernment is one of the hallmarks of a leader God sends to 'the people'. Rick Wareen cannot discern the wickedness of Barack Obama.
Why is this relevent right now? Well, I just finished a call with a female identifying herself as a Radio Program producer. She offered for me to call her to discuss Rick Warren and the calls for him to withdraw from the inaugural festivities. Her questions had a tone more of push polling than genuine wonder at why Rick Warren is being chastised for lending his name to the promotion of this wicked man. I gave her the names of three other pro-life freepers to contact. Perhaps one of them will take the offer to discuss this issue and be ambushed on the radio. But I doubt they are any more gullible than I. [HINT: the female's name was offered as Robyn Nicole and she used the handle rnicole when she wrote a freepmail to me inviting me to call her and discuss Rick Warren's controversial appearance for/with Barack Obama. I called, and she says she hasn't even read Purpose Driven Life, but she wanted me to give her a synopsis of the book and why I wouldn't buy into it all! My final question to her was, "Does Rick Warren's even tacit endorsement of Barack Obama enhance his assertiont hat he is pro-life, if he will lend his name for promotion of a wicked man?]
I received Freepmail from this ..rnicole...(Mr.Robinson, I could find no Freeper with that handle)
But my freepmail mirrors what MHGinTN recieved...
...I will not give her the time of day and I hope no one else does either.
NO DOUBT other Freepers have been contacted with the same request from this 'Robin' nicole.
**rnicole sent a phone number & email address in my Freepmail.
Thanks, Guenevere....
It feels more like an ambush than a scam, m’Lady. I did recommend that she read Purpose Driven Life and see if she could discern why it is not a truly Christian perspective book though it starts out like gangbuster in that direction. It seemed odd to me that she would want to have a radio program on a man and not have any familiarity with his most infamous work. She must be kind of young, too, because I tried to recall for heer the incident in Atlanta where an escaped murderer kidnapped a young single mom who got himself to turn himself in by reading portions of Purpose Driven to him ... the young woman was not really familiar with that case though she said she seemed to recall it.
The spammer has been banned.
Thanks so much!
If that were the only major criticism of Warren, I would agree. However, the big problem for me is Warren's apparent habit of deciding what Christianity should be and then finding verses to support his views--or even contradicting the Bible in some cases, such as when he says God always takes 40 days to prepare one of His children for a great move of God. Graham works in the opposite direction, using the Bible as the standard, not for backup for his own ideas.
Reminds me of an editor I worked with...she cut a reference I made in a column to Hillary Clinton baking cookies. She thought I was making a sexist remark, because she was in elementary school when Hillary made her infamous comment about stay at home moms baking cookies.
...or even contradicting the Bible in some cases, such as when he says God always takes 40 days to prepare one of His children for a great move of God.
With all due respect, that is not what Warren says. Warren wrote..."The Bible is clear that God considers 40 days a spiritually significant time period. Whenever God wanted to prepare someone for his purposes, he took 40 days:..." Warren goes on to give 8 biblical examples of God taking 40 days to prepare people.
While that statement is too sweeping (for example, it took Paul longer than 40 days for his preparation), it has long been established that 40 days is a significant number, much like the number 7.
I completely agree that Billy Graham has set a high standard. But you certainly must be aware that Billy has heartily endorsed "The Purpose Driven Life", and in fact, in 2004 wrote a book with Max Lucado and his daughter Anne, titled "Passion with a Purpose: 40 Days with God".
What Warren did with the 40 days theme is simply use a homiletic device, taught in seminaries all over the country, and practiced in chuches every Sunday, called sermons by us Protestants, and often called homilies by Catholic priests. Billy Graham was particulary adept at that sort of sermon construct.
Rick Warren brought a lot of ideas from Robert Schuller, who brought them from Norman Vincent Peale, who brought them from Mary Baker Eddy, who brought them from Phineas Parkhurst Quimby. They all conveniently leave out the atonement for sin made by Christ on the Cross, but emphasize the ability to create reality by the use of faith independent of walking by faith alone in Christ alone.
No, I was not. It was certainly a mistake on his part.
The fad-driven church is the last thing America needs now.
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