Gay groups angry at Pope remarks

BBC.CO.UK ^ | Tuesday, 23 December 2008

[dangus]

I guess a lot of people have already.

[RobinOfKingston]

Our little queer buddies are certainly a petulant lot.

[The Great RJ]

It begs the question why gay groups are so quick to condemn Catholics and other Christians for stating their beliefs about homosexuality, but strangely silent when Muslims condemn homosexuality?

[dangus]

>> Vladimir Luxuria, a transgender former Italian MP, called his words “hurtful”. <<

I’m guessing that’s not a given name. The Catholic Church doesn’t have a long history of taking marching orders from people named ‘Vladimir.’

Checking wikipedia: Yup, he’s a commie! Can you imagine the uproar of an elected official changing their name to Adolf? (His real name is Wladamiro.)

[RightWingConspirator]

I wonder how many others remember fondly those golden days of yesteryear when homosexuality was deemed to be a mental disorder and a perversion and those who chose that sexual path stayed out of the public’s eye. Unfortunately, the American Psychiatric Association some years back took a vote (after gaining sufficient homosexual members) to determine if it was still a mental disorder and a perversion, and not surprisingly, they determined that is no longer was. Since then we have been afflicted by homosexual groups pushing their evil agenda into our government, our schools, our churches and every aspect of our daily life.

[Dutch Boy]

Just thinking out of the box for a minute....

What if science actually discovers the mythical “gay gene” and it turns out to be biology’s way of removing inferior genes from the pool? Same sex partners naturally result in the prevention of passing on genes to future generations. A gay gene would likely cause an end to a person’s genetic code being passed to offspring.

[FreedomOfExpression]

“Call no man ‘Father.’”

Actually that refers to our "Heaveny Father"

????

Our heavenly father is called a "man" in the Bible?

Matthew 23:9 is pretty clear; Jesus was talking about putting the TITLE of "father" on humans. From reading the surrounding verses, you can see that he was giving the scribes and Pharisees a verbal attitude adjustment because of their desires for prominence and titles, as well as their hypocrisy.

Perhaps I have mistaken your meaning.

[weegee]

Vladimir Luxuria, a transgender former Italian MP, called his words “hurtful”.

He isn't just a FORMER Italian MP if (s)he is transgendered.

[FreedomOfExpression]

Absolute linguistic literalism is a sign of ignorance.

Claiming to be a Christian while not following what he has to say is, at the least, ignorance.

I'm obviously NOT saying we can do so perfectly, but some things are in direct opposition to what he told us.

[FreedomOfExpression]

“Call no man ‘Father.’”

Actually, the Greek says “propater.” Catholic priests are called “pater.”

I understand your point, but isn't "Holy Father" beyond even that?
Besides that, we're not speaking Greek.

[dangus]

>> Besides that, we’re not speaking Greek. <<

Yes, but the two terms also exist in Latin. And that is the language of the Catholic Church.

>> I understand your point, but isn’t “Holy Father” beyond even that? <<

Are you protesting the use of the word “holy” in describing someone? This is true to the best of my knowledge, but I don’t claim to be an expert at this: No-one says, “Holy Father Benedict XVI.” He is called “The holy father” only as a proper noun, to distinguish him from one’s own natural father.

[Is2C]

It’s amazing how bold and aggressive evil has become in the last 20 years.

So very true. It is a small reassurance to be able to come on FR and see that others see it too. Very few seem to realize it.

"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold." Mat 24:12

[GonzoII]

"Perhaps I have mistaken your meaning."

"Our heavenly father is called a "man" in the Bible?"

As far as our heavenly Father being refered to as a man you have mistaken my meaning.

Jesus himself, St John and St. Paul refer to men as "father":

Lk:14:26: If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (KJV)

1Jn:2:13: I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father. (KJV)

Rom:4:12: And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. (KJV)

[lady lawyer]

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

For men shall be lover of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

Traitors, heady highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God . . . .

2 Timothy 3: 1-4.

Paul hit the nail right on the head, didn’t he?

[FreedomOfExpression]

Are you protesting the use of the word “holy” in describing someone? This is true to the best of my knowledge, but I don’t claim to be an expert at this: No-one says, “Holy Father Benedict XVI.” He is called “The holy father” only as a proper noun, to distinguish him from one’s own natural father.

Really I am objecting to the title with or without the word holy. Even though it might be a different form of the word, it still seems to ignore the meaning or spirit of the scripture.

Obviously, I'm just stating my understanding of the Bible here.

Just curious, not being sarcastic, but GonzoII in post #1 used the words "Holy Father". Is this sometimes used as a shortened form of the title "The Holy Father"?

[lady lawyer]

I’m not a Catholic, I’m a Mormon, but I must say this.

Here we have the leader of the world’s largest Christian denomination speaking out forcefully against a great evil, and drawing fire from the homosexuals and their growing group of supporters for doing so.

I, for one, am grateful. We need all the allies in this fight we can get. This is not the time for scriptural quibbles over doctrine, and attacking the religious conventions of others. We should be focusing on what we have in common, and being good allies to each other.

[FreedomOfExpression]

I, for one, am grateful. We need all the allies in this fight we can get. This is not the time for scriptural quibbles over doctrine, and attacking the religious conventions of others. We should be focusing on what we have in common, and being good allies to each other.

I have not been doing any attacking.

I did respond strongly to a snarky remark, even though it was not directed to me. Otherwise, I have tried to make a point about my beliefs without being adversarial about it.
At least that is my intent. Perhaps I word my replies too strongly?

I am also appreciative of the Pope's comments, and definitely there are many points of agreement here, but hopefully there is room for discussion of points that we disagree on, just as long as it is kept civil.

[GonzoII]

"Is this sometimes used as a shortened form of the title "The Holy Father"?

Well, I could have said: "Thanks, Pope", also; "Holy Father" or "Pope", it's his title.

Main Entry: holy father
Function: noun
Usage: usually capitalized H&F

: POPE 1a
Webster's Third Unabridged...

.........I'm not trying to be cocky.

[lady lawyer]

I apologize. You weren’t the one who originally took issue with the use of the term “Holy Father.”

I don’t call the Pope, “Holy Father,” but why on earth would anyone make an issue of the fact that Catholics do? Especially on a thread like this.

This isn’t the place to hash out doctrinal differences. This is a place to form alliances to fight the destruction of our culture, while agreeing that we can respectfully disagree on points of doctrine without constantly bringing them up.

[dangus]

>> Even though it might be a different form of the word, it still seems to ignore the meaning or spirit of the scripture. <<

Since the use of “Father” as a title of respect due a priest dates to the first century, maybe your understanding of the meaning or the spirit of the scripture is wrong?

>> Just curious, not being sarcastic, but GonzoII in post #1 used the words “Holy Father”. Is this sometimes used as a shortened form of the title “The Holy Father”? <<

No, it’s consistent with what I meant by the uses of “The Holy Father.” I’m quite sure GonzoII wouldn’t say, “Thank you, Holy Father Benedict.” (Well, fairly sure... I’ve never heard that anyway.) My point was that “Holy” is used when a given name (i.e., “Benedict”) is not; it’s used to specify who we’re talking about, much like “Our Father in Heaven” is used to clarify we’re talking about God, or “U.S. President” is used to refer to Bush. You don’t say U.S. President Bush, because if you say Bush, you don’t need to specify that he’s the *U.S.* President.