Vatican condemns IVF, the Pill (Why is this so surprising alert!)

Reuters ^ | December 12, 2008 | Philip Pullella

[PigRigger]

before we adopted our youngest daughter my wife and I tried IVF....It failed....and I regret having gone through it....it still disturbs me knowing what I voluntarily allowed to happen....in hopes of having our "own" child...

I wholeheartedly recommend adoption....not just because of the blessings our daughter has brought our lives....but also to find peace in the decision....

I also recommend not putting off having children "until you are ready"....we waited and were very lucky with our first....

[rintense]

That's crap. You go find me a reproductive clinic that implants six embryos and I'll believe you. Until then, you're a hysterical fool.

Oh, and you need a simple lesson in biology to understand how multiples occur. I'll give you an example: a friend of mine had IVF and two embryos transferred. One split and she has three children.

[MHGinTN]

“If science can improve the human condition, then yes.” Your demigod, ‘science’, can kill off a few hundred million humans and improve the conditions for the remainder. How telling that you would favor that, apparently! How revealing

[MyTwoCopperCoins]

I realize it is over your head, but, well, that’s the point: It’s over your head.

Trust me, your arguments here, are available for all to see, and speak volumes about the feeble cause you intend to support.

[rintense]

So an embryo arresting on its own is now comparable to Nazi Germany? Come on.

[allmendream]

No. I was making a joke.

[Citizen Blade]

Your demigod, ‘science’, can kill off a few hundred million humans and improve the conditions for the remainder.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here. Can you be more specific?

[netmilsmom]

Post 130.

[MyTwoCopperCoins]

Post 130

Already addressed.

[MHGinTN]

We have many n00bs filthying up FR of late. That these pricks (littel nettles, nothing more) expect to be given credulity and lots of attention is an immediate giveaway. Twisting and deceit are the natural democrat way don’tchaknow. It is to smile, they are so obvious.

[wombtotomb]

Thank God for your eyes being open. God bless you for your selfless act of adoption. God smiled upon your family. Many do not realize that adoption IS Gods way of providing a child when one is prayed for in many instances. A child is a child. It matters not who made the clay, it is who shapes it.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for stepping up to the plate and knowing the difference between being a parent and father or mother only.

[wombtotomb]

hysterical fool, i think not. No need for selective reduction if only 1 maybe 2 implanted. get an education before you spew bs. and you still do not address HOW MANY EMBRYOS ARE CREATED TO GET THE FITTEST TO IMPLANT AND THEN ARE DISCARDED,frozen, or used for research purposes. All are living babies. Good Day.

[Petronski]

So an embryo arresting on its own is now comparable to Nazi Germany?

IVF takes a class of humans, defines away their humanity, and imprisons or destroys the members of that class in the service of whims of others.

[netmilsmom]

>>Some clinics recommend transferring more than 3 embryos if you are older than 35 or have had several unsuccessful IVF attempts. As you age your embryo quality can start to decline, therefore transferring more than 3 may give you a better chance of success. <<

From here...
http://www.ivfconnections.com/qtransfer.htm

I think that your idea of “common misconceptions” is your own. Practices in the UK are not too much different than here. It doesn't make sense that in the UK there are a million embryos to be killed but in the US, there aren't.

[Petronski]

Trust me, your arguments here, are available for all to see, and speak volumes about the feeble cause you intend to support.

Feeble cause? Basic human rights for all humans?

[Petronski]

Santayana was right.

[PigRigger]

Plus, if I am right, then if you or any of your descendants willingly choose/s to cease to end their genetic lineage, then it ends up with you on the disadvantaged side. Cheers!

Not taking sides here......but what advantage do you gain when you, personally, no longer exist?

To your decedents it is obviously advatageous....but I don't see how it helps one personally after they are dead....the only advantages I see is when you are alive....

[netmilsmom]

>>I’m 42 and on my 3rd IVF. I respond well (12+ follicles, near 100% retrieval/fert rates), make beautiful embryos, but they don’t implant. Three REs all say we have “implantation failure”. Specialist say the reason for this is either functional (ie, progesterone surging too early, akin to P27/cyclin E situation) to infectious in nature.

In IVF#1 we put in 6. In IVF#2 we put in another 6. We had 6 frozen embryos, 1 survived thaw and we put in 5. So 17 embryos in three transfers and not a single implantation. We did not do PGD so we opted to always put in more. We went with the assumption that at 41 (my age at retrieval) the odds are that 1 in 5 embryos are normal.<<

From here...
http://infertilityblog.blogspot.com/2006/11/how-many-embryos-are-you-putting-back.html

[BMiles2112]

So is the right to have biological progeny.
If this statement is true, then the following must also be true:
1) As procreation is a right, then it exists without infringing on the rights of anyone else, correct? If you cannot reproduce without medical intervention, and cannot afford IVF, how will this "right" be provided? (In case it's unclear, I just proved that procreation is not a right.)
2) As procreation is a right, if you cannot reproduce without medical intervention because of issues with your partner, and cannot afford IVF, is rape justified? (In case it's not clear, I proved again that procreation is not a right.)

it's the driving force of all life on this planet.
What's your point? Survival of ones self, I submit, more primal than procreation. Is it a right that you have food at your table? If so, are you justified in killing innocents to obtain this food? Answer carefully.

[MyTwoCopperCoins]

To your decedents it is obviously advatageous....but I don't see how it helps one personally after they are dead....the only advantages I see is when you are alive....

When you analyze deep enough, establishing a genetic legacy is the paramount motivation for all living forms, no matter how much PC nonsense can make arguments to the contrary. It's life's substitute for immortality.