You are mistaken.
Posted on 12/10/2008 12:05:41 PM PST by Virginia Ridgerunner
The Phantom continues in service with the 82nd ATRS; as well as a number of foreign air forces.
You are mistaken.
“I’m not IMPLYING anything.
I’m not even second-guessing the pilot. Maybe it flew further than he thought it was going to after he ejected.
I simply made a statement about how things used to be when I was growing up near a Naval Air Station.”
Bullsh!t. You’re doing nothing BUT second-guessing the pilot through implication. And your implications are not only unfair and cruel, but also far from “simple” - they are several layers deep and carefully calculated to impune the character and integrity of not only the pilot, but every Naval aviator. And as if that’s not enough, you’re refusing to take any responsibility for the true substance of your comments, hitting and running like a thief in the night after denying everything and throwing dust in everyone’s eyes.
Specifically:
1. By “making a simple statement” about your supposed past “experience” without drawing any conclusions, your statement is utterly meaningless and not even worth posting unless - and only unless - it is used to: draw implications.
2. Your “statement” is in fact dismissable on it’s face by your own admittance, as it consists merely of living “near” a NAS, mostly as a child. Well good for you - and about thirty million other people in the country! I guess that means you’re automatically a freaking expert on emergency fighter flying skills, and how they have changed across decades of high-performance aircraft flight characteristic developments, right?
3. And just in case you want to claim that you have a right to an opinion without having to be an expert on flying, let me point out the extremely advanced concepts several FReepers on this thread made, about planes getting heavier, wings getting smaller, and no direct cables left to pull on in a final moment of courage once the power goes out to the computerized flight controls. In other words: what part of a dropping dead rock don’t you quite understand? You do know that the people on the ground said that the plane came out of the sky in eerie silence, with no engine power, right?
4. And then there is the fact that you not only direct your subversion towards the pilot in this tragedy, but to all Naval aviators today, when you use the phrase: “there was a day.” This is just a flat-out cheap shot and you well know it. It is deliberate psychological sabotage towards the way people think about the modern military.
5. Finally, when you reply to postings on this thread you not only refuse to acknowledge the slightest flaw in your statements, but go on to state a brazen lie about it’s obvious implicatory structure, and then try to pose yourself as victimized.
In sum (and I am not IMPLYING the following statement), your posts here have been lying, cheap-shot, hit-and-runs which try to take advantage of this terrible accident in order to impune all of modern Naval aviation.
To unfairly generalize against the military is subversive, and deserves exposure. But to take advantage of a tragedy to do so is revolting, and deserves contempt.
I knew foreign Air Forces would fly F-4’s but not the USAF, other than perhaps as targeting drones.
1. I will draw an implication...there were technical problems well prior to this aircraft just suddenly dropping out of the sky. Yet the pilot chose to or was instructed to fly over a heavily populated area when another base was available without flying over a heavily populated area.
2. After an investigation it is possible that this pilot could be found to be responsible for saving his own skin at the expense of 2 dead children. Maybe not, we will have to see.
3. So, there were no technical problems at all as a warning? The plane just dropped suddenly like a rock with no warning at all? Not what has been reported.
4. To criticize any member of the military for any action is subverting the entire military? Perhaps there was more this pilot could have done to avoid this tragedy. A very valid question, and one that deserves an answer. The ultimate answer could be “no”. This should come out in time.
5. Perhaps you should admit to some of the flaws of your argument.
It’s not his career that matters. He, as a man, is forever scarred by this. I can’t even imagine what it is like for this pilot. He followed all his training to the letter... and he almost made it to Miramar. Almost. It is simply a tragic accident but has to affect him deeply as a human being.
I’m with you, Hot Tabasco. The last image I saw last night was this young husband and father on the news, speaking slowly and painfully, saying “thank you to all who are praying for me and my family.”
This morning, listening to Laura Ingraham, I learned that Yoon also said he was praying for the pilot. I get goose bumps thinking of this. He is a very special man, with spiritual understanding beyond most.
I believe it was the 182 Fighter Interceptor Squadron.
I think you are correct.
Apparently the standards at Herod Elementary are not as high as they were when my and some geeky kid named Michael Dell were in attendance.
At least the media is showing how this man has received prayers from around the world for his kindness towards the pilot.
He is a good soul who has suffered a tremendous loss yet he doesn’t not lash out in hatred.
Prayers and more prayers for him.
I saw a short interview with Dong Yun Yoon. I suspect that the MSM interviewers stuck a camera and a microphone in his face in the hope that he would say how much he hated George Bush and the American military for what they had done to his family, but he refused to blame anyone. He expressed his concern for the pilot. He said that he knew that others had suffered worse losses. He showed decency and modesty and compassion through his overwhelming grief. Very impressive guy.
1. The accident board will determine if he followed proper emergency procedures and/or if standing orders for the squadron need to be changed.
2. Asinine point. How could he possibly know that bailing out would cause more casualties than riding it in? You’re out of your mind if you think such moral considerations flash through a person’s mind in the split seconds required to make the decision.
3. Twin engine aircraft operating with a single engine shut down for an emergency is not an infrequent occurence at any military or civil airport. If you live near an airport you’ve probably had numerous twin engine airliners that have lost an engine routed over your house. ATC will attempt to give you the best routing in an emergency.
4. This was not what he was arguing against. Wayne S implied that the Naval Aviators of today were somehow a lesser breed than yesteryear because he had a mythical impression of the past.
5. All the MS FlightSim fighter jocks need to give it a rest and let the accident investigation board do its work.
Bull Meecham.
real man.
woa there, don’t you think you’re jumping to a lot of conclusions?
plenty of reasonable folks always wonder if a pilot could have done more to avert civvie casualties and that is not an indictment of the military or the pilot or being subversive.
we would like to think our pilots would try to avoid killing innocents even if it meant sacrificing themselves.....
and yes, it’s hard to tell if he had that chance...lots of questions....how close did he eject would be a pertinent one for starters
see the crash site pic above .
if he did bail early then he has some explaining to do but then again if the bird had no controls then not much one can do is there?
I’d like to have more info myself
I actually did NOTHING that you accuse me of. My father was a 28 year Navy man and I have NOTHING but respect for those who serve in our armed services (even the ones who make mistakes). You can check my posting history if you do not believe me.
YOU, on the other hand, are a raving, ranting horse’e ass, and I cirdially invite you to GFY.
Truth be told, the only "stick time" I have in miltary planes is in an old T-34 prop-job and a couple C128s and C130s. (The T-34 WOULD glide reasonably well as long as its wings and tail were still attached ).
I DO fully understand that there are MAJOR differences with jets, and what I was doing was passing on things that I had heard in my (much) younger years from Naval aviators with whom I was aqainted (who are, of course, renowned for their ability to tell "stories" to impress the impressionable). As your anecdote shows, the REAL story is often not as glamorous.
I absolutely meant no disrespect to this particular aviator or to any other military pilots/aviators, as I hope you were able to glean from my subsequent comments.
Thank you also for being cordial and friendly in your discourse, unlike some new-comers around here.
PS - The F18 still has cables. They are hydraulically assisted, but it still has cables.
The F-16 does not.
How’s that for “advanced” concepts, you arrogant jackass?
What causes a Hornet to lose BOTH engines? Contaminated fuel?
"The art of maintaining controlled flight is dependent on speed, altitude, and power. If he loses one of these three aspects, a pilot can usually trade one of the remainder for the other.
In this case, the unlucky pilot first ran out of power, then quickly the other two. Prayers for the survivors, both civilian and military."
Agreed.
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