Posted on 11/29/2008 11:41:32 AM PST by DivaDelMar
In fact, under FairTax people will actually increase purchasing power based on having more cash on hand, since savings accounts and investment accounts are no longer subject to taxation. Imagine being able to save up for retirement, buy a house, buy a car, or buy any big-ticket item in cash or with a much smaller loan because you can actually afford a bigger down payment.
There are two kinds of FReepers--those who know how to use the FR search, and those, like you and I, who just can't seem to get it right. Personally, I don't mind repeat postings of items that are of current interest. Those who want to look at all of the history can figure out how to use the search. And, they don't have to look at your thread if they think they've seen it already. End of off-topic rant.
I’d like to note that it didn’t take a constitutional amendment to create the socialist insecurity system. That was supposed to be a government retirement account. That little experiment has generated a 60 trillion dollar unfunded liability. Time to face facts: The New Deal nullified the Constitution.
Did it take a constitutional amendment to confiscate gold? Was gold purchased with previously taxed dollars? Why is a traditional or roth IRA any different?
The idiots who are now in charge will embrace this. I don’t think there are enought self-sufficient, self-actuating individuals remaining to fight it. Don’t believe it can’t or won’t happen here. The COMMUNISTS are in charge and they will do this in the name of “protecting us” and the sheople will embrace it.
I think they could do it with Roth IRA’s as well as Traditional IRA’s.
I’m sure the gold they confiscated during the 30’s was purchased with post-tax dollars, so I don’t see that as a bar.
This will be done in the name of “protecting us” from the evil, greedy bastards on Wall Street. They will paint them as evil incarnate and the sheople will embrace it. Nevermind the fact that this whole mess originated because Congress stuck their willy in the banking soup by requiring banks to issue sub-prime loans. They are never going to take responsibility for this, but they will use it to confiscate our wealth.
PRECISELY! That's why I am going to pull every dime out of my IRA's and 401(k) and buy a bunch of mason jars.
What if the O does this via executive order?
If they “give” you a government account with like balance, have they violated the 5th Amendment protection against taking private property without just compensation?
Don’t wait for the COMMUNIST SOB to be inaugurated. If you are going to do this and spread it over two years, pull some before 12/31 and some before 1/20.
You are welcome and I appreciate your tolerant response.
I pay income tax but not much and if Obama is true to his word, he will eliminate my taxes altogether because I am a retired geezer. That just doesnt seem fair to me; I have enjoyed living in a country that provides for me.
Krauthammer has an OpEd that addresses that called: Bailouts don’t Bode well for Market Economy. The government tells us to save money on the one hand and are angry because we don’t take our rebates and buy consumer products on the other hand.
I dont think he can do it by executive order. Well, technically, there is no real definition of what can and cant be done by executive order, I cant think of any executive order of this sort. This is precisely the kind of thing that requires Congress to pass a law (which is why they had hearings). Congress does not have the “audacity” to do this.
If Obama were to try this, there is little doubt in my mind the Supreme Court would overrule him. But I don’t think he is stupid enough to do it. It would destroy the RAT party ... for a very long time.
Not to mention that the mutual fund/hedge fund/bank/brokerage lobbies will make sure this never happens. Without them, campaign coffers will be pitiful.
SEE: http://www.the-privateer.com/1933-gold-confiscation.html
The Gold Confiscation Of April 5, 1933
From: President of the United States Franklin Delano Roosevelt
To: The United States Congress
Dated: 5 April, 1933
Presidential Executive Order 6102
Forbidding the Hoarding of Gold Coin, Gold Bullion and Gold Certificates By virtue of the authority vested in me by Section 5(b) of the Act of October 6, 1917, as amended by Section 2 of the Act of March 9, 1933, entitled
An Act to provide relief in the existing national emergency in banking, and for other purposes~’,
in which amendatory Act Congress declared that a serious emergency exists,
I, Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the United States of America, do declare that said national emergency still continues to exist and pursuant to said section to do hereby prohibit the hoarding gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States by individuals, partnerships, associations and corporations and hereby prescribe the following regulations for carrying out the purposes of the order:
Section 1. For the purpose of this regulation, the term ‘hoarding” means the withdrawal and withholding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates from the recognized and customary channels of trade. The term “person” means any individual, partnership, association or corporation.
Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following:
(a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.
(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.
(c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.
(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for the other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and gold bullion imported for the re-export or held pending action on applications for export license.
Section 3. Until otherwise ordered any person becoming the owner of any gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates after April 28, 1933, shall within three days after receipt thereof, deliver the same in the manner prescribed in Section 2; unless such gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates are held for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a),(b) or (c) of Section 2; or unless such gold coin, gold bullion is held for purposes specified in paragraph (d) of Section 2 and the person holding it is, with respect to such gold coin or bullion, a licensee or applicant for license pending action thereon.
Section 4. Upon receipt of gold coin, gold bullion, or gold certificates delivered to it in accordance with Section 2 or 3, the Federal reserve bank or member bank will pay thereof an equivalent amount of any other form of coin or currency coined or issued under the laws of the Unites States.
Section 5. Member banks shall deliver alt gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates owned or received by them (other than as exempted under the provisions of Section 2) to the Federal reserve banks of there respective districts and receive credit or payment thereof.
Section 6. The Secretary of the Treasury, out of the sum made available to the President by Section 501 of the Act of March 9, 1933, will in all proper cases pay the reasonable costs of transportation of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates delivered to a member bank or Federal reserve bank in accordance with Sections 2, 3, or 5 hereof, including the cost of insurance, protection, and such other incidental costs as may be necessary, upon production of satisfactory evidence of such costs. Voucher forms for this purpose may be procured from Federal reserve banks.
Section 7. In cases where the delivery of gold coin, gold bullion, or gold certificates by the owners thereof within the time set forth above will involve extraordinary hardship or difficulty, the Secretary of the Treasury may, in his discretion, extend the time within which such delivery must be made. Applications for such extensions must be made in writing under oath; addressed to the Secretary of the Treasury and filed with a Federal reserve bank. Each applications must state the date to which the extension is desired, the amount and location of the gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates in respect of which such application is made and the facts showing extension to be necessary to avoid extraordinary hardship or difficulty.
Section 8. The Secretary of the Treasury is hereby authorized and empowered to issue such further regulations as he may deem necessary to carry the purposes of this order and to issue licenses there under, through such officers or agencies as he may designate, including licenses permitting the Federal reserve banks and member banks of the Federal Reserve System, in return for an equivalent amount of other coin, currency or credit, to deliver, earmark or hold in trust gold coin or bullion to or for persons showing the need for same for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a), (c), and (d) of Section 2 of these regulations.
Section 9. Whoever willfully violates any provision of this Executive Order or these regulation or of any rule, regulation or license issued there under may be fined not more than $10,000, or,if a natural person may be imprisoned for not more than ten years or both; and any officer, director, or agent of any corporation who knowingly participates in any such violation may be punished by a like fine, imprisonment, or both.
This order and these regulations may be modified or revoked at any time.
/s/
Franklin D. Roosevelt
President of the United States of America
April 5, 1933
Don’t delude yourself. This administration is going to make FDR look like a piker in comparison.
Realistically, I think the country has changed too much since FDR for such an order to be politically viable. Unlike FDR’s time, there are simply too many prosperous people, with the means and motive to fight tooth and nail.
As in they didn't confiscate all of it? Or, they didn't confiscate it at all?
I do believe that they did grab hold of all of it, paid for it eventually at half price, and then outlawed the owning of gold bullion by the average citizen for quite a while.
See: http://mises.org/story/3056
Outlawing the ownership of gold pretty much means a forced sale to the government, which is close enough to confiscation for me.
They did not confiscate all of it. Many people hid their gold. Those with a lot of gold put it in European banks vaults (and the fortunate chose Switzerland rather than Germany or France as their banking location).
Where were all those people on November 4th?
If you want to really roil the markets, confiscating 20% of the 401k/IRA accounts and scaring the rest into overseas gold would do wonders.
Dow 500, here we come.
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