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Who killed the auto industry (U.S Government)
worldnetdaily.com ^ | November 21, 2008 | Pat Buchanan

Posted on 11/21/2008 11:05:08 AM PST by thetru

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To: Azzurri
You can't really blame current management, these labor agreements go back decades.

Sure I can. Management should have declared bankruptcy so that it could get out of these labor agreements. Besides, it was the management that gave away the store to the unions. Perhaps it should have realized that such concessions to the union were ultimately unprofitable.

41 posted on 11/21/2008 1:37:17 PM PST by pnh102 (Save America - Ban Ethanol Now!)
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To: pnh102
Management should have declared bankruptcy so that it could get out of these labor agreements.

Theoretically, yes. But who wants to be remembered for quitting?

42 posted on 11/21/2008 1:44:12 PM PST by Tallguy ("The sh- t's chess, it ain't checkers!" -- Alonzo (Denzel Washington) in "Training Day")
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To: pnh102

Nardelli and Mulally have only been around a year or two. The management of all the Big 3 negotiated and restructured much better deals in the last contract that will make them almost on par with the foreign automakers. The new deals take effect in 2010. Those need to be fast-tracked. Traditional bankruptcy means the end for these companies. A more targeted, short term bankruptcy with all parties agreeing beforehand to the necessary cuts may be plausible.


43 posted on 11/21/2008 1:46:03 PM PST by Azzurri
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To: thetru

UAW.

Crush the UAW and each member and you will see a resurgence in US Auto Making.


44 posted on 11/21/2008 2:49:24 PM PST by NoLibZone (Obams success proves that Ayers type violence is respected by the left. Let's do likewise.)
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To: gwilhelm56
2/3 UAW

No. There's a reason its called a collective bargaining agreement. The big three's sackless management agreed to the UAW's demands. They should have had the foresight to take care of this problem while they still had the means to ride out the inevitable strike.

45 posted on 11/21/2008 2:53:46 PM PST by Doohickey (The more cynical you become, the better off you'll be.)
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To: edge10
Oh Pat you are such a dope. Union contracts, poor quality products, crappy management and having fleets of giganto vehicles in their production lines when gas hit $4.00 a gallon killed the big 3. I’m sure there are more. The foreign brands have to deal with the same government garbage as the big 3 and they aren’t dying.

Pat is more right on these issues than for example Bush trade policies. Go back to the article. The imports of early years are not those of today. Basically they were bargain basement junk made at very low wages and imported. France never apologized for the Renault which was one of the worst.

In the mean time federal government was the unions best friend and along with state closed shop laws tied the Big 3's hands. When the foreign owners finally began setting up manufacturing in the USA some things had changed. First thing was they built in non closed shop states meaning the south and were non union. The people in these states unlike the UAW workers in the north welcomed and worked with the companies by not demanding unrealistic wages. It was a win win for both company and worker. It was only then though with the cars made in USA that they had to come up to US safety standards and EPA. EPA and government have not helped the BIG 3. BTW there is still a big demand for larger vehicles as in some cases that is what the buyer needs. The smaller foreign owned can not meet that demand or rather won't.

PJB is right on many trade issues and it was a dumb move on Bush's part to exclude Conservatives like him from at least having advisory positions. But Bush never has been interested in that. He is simply serving corporate masters who's interest lie outside that of the USA.

The big 3 need to bust the unions. That would be a first. True labor unions should consist of actual workers from within a company. Many labor union leaders never worked in a plant a day in their lives. Union members need to come to terms with reality and realize that a livable and honest wage for their labor means more persons work and likely JOB SECURITY FOR ALL. Labor Unions in many places have become far worse than the abusive employers they were originally formed to deal with. For example no man who can not afford a strike and has to feed his family should get threatened or the crap beat out of him for crossing a picket line.

46 posted on 11/21/2008 3:23:16 PM PST by cva66snipe ($.01 The current difference between the DEM's and GOP as well as their combined worth to this nation)
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To: cva66snipe

He is simply serving corporate masters who’s interest lie outside that of the USA.(They want to bring down America)


47 posted on 11/21/2008 5:42:34 PM PST by thetru
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To: cva66snipe

Next, Washington imposed a corporate tax rate of 35 percent, raking off another 15 percent of autoworkers’ wages in Social Security payroll taxes

State governments imposed income and sales taxes, and local governments property taxes to subsidize services and schools.


48 posted on 11/21/2008 5:52:05 PM PST by thetru
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To: thetru
Thanks. I forgot that part. Why would government support Big Three trying to bust the union or lessen it's choke hold when congress was looking at dollar signs. The pyramid is collapsing. Congress never sees any tax as being harmful. The only way foreign owned companies are making it is because of workers willing to make lower but reasonable wages. I would apply that standard to CEO’s as well. Sure they should get higher pay {not over six digit figures per year & such be limited by shareholders but not the government} but not obscene pay especially while their company is going down the tubes.

Greed on three sides {Union, government, management} is killing the U.S. automotive industry. None want to give in an inch but all three want to give themselves OUR money.

49 posted on 11/21/2008 6:05:30 PM PST by cva66snipe ($.01 The current difference between the DEM's and GOP as well as their combined worth to this nation)
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To: Redbob
I say once the big three are destroyed, lets move to the other unionized industries, seeing as how any union represented industry is evil incarnate. The next one should be the aerospace industry, turn Kansas into Detroit. Lets move on to the steel industry, (oh wait, already did that). Then the next one will be the telecommunications industry, virtually owned by the CWA. Then we can smack down the trade unions, (no plumber or electrician should make more than minimum wage). Then move on to the utilities, we wont need many of them when obama bankrupts the coal industry. Just remember though that government unions are strictly hands off. You beginning to see my point? I see a lot of people obsessing over one industry and blaming its problems on the union, when all parties involved share the blame.
50 posted on 11/21/2008 6:52:56 PM PST by factoryrat (Better living through American Industrial Might.)
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To: thetru

“I dissent. What killed Detroit was Washington, the government of the United States, politicians, journalists and muckrakers who have long harbored a deep animus against the manufacturing class that ran the smokestack industries that won World War II”.

Don’t you know? Making things in this country is so 20th century.


51 posted on 11/21/2008 6:57:20 PM PST by factoryrat (Better living through American Industrial Might.)
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To: factoryrat

One third of the cost of an auto is made up of taxation and regulations. I firmly believe that the elites are doing this on purpose to bring Americans to their knees. Just look at what they have done to free trade. It’s destroying America.


52 posted on 11/22/2008 11:34:01 AM PST by thetru
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To: 1rudeboy
"Umm, last I checked the (Formerly) Big Three were getting their asses kicked by automobiles manufactured in the United States."

I'm sorry for your ignorance, but foreign autos being manufactured and sold in the US send a much greater percentage of profit back to their homleand than do US autos being manufactured anywhere. Here is the bottom line, about 76% of all profits from foreign auto sales goes back into that foreign country's economy, whereas about 36% of all profits from "Detroit" cars goes back into the American economy. Though a Toyota plant may assemble some autos in the US, they source the vast majority of their materials and parts from other countries. When replacement parts are needed for these Toyotas in America, those parts are not not manufactured in the US, but in Japan and elsewhere. This literally forces Detroit to use cheaper materials than its foreign competitors, just to remain competitive enough to stay alive. And that is but one reason why some foreign autos are "better" than US cars. But even this is changing today.

There are other reasons as well, not the least of them being that foreign nations place many restrictions on the importation of US cars, (heavy taxation, foreign protectionist trade laws, etc), while the US does NOTHING to counteract this outrageously unfair trade practice. Detroit isn't nearly as stupid as are the goons, cons and dimwits who run the United States governemnt.

53 posted on 11/24/2008 11:41:25 AM PST by rangeryder (If a man says something in the woods, is he still wrong?)
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To: thetru

Gov’t regulates labor laws —> Creating all-powerful unions

Strong Unions —> Steel Industry bankrupt
Strong Unions —> Airline Industry bankrupt
Strong Unions —> Education System bankrupt
Strong Unions —> Auto Industry bankrupt

Gov’t regulations lead to out-of-control costs in the financial industry —> Gov’t control under the guise of a bailout

Gov’t regulations lead to out-of-control costs in the medical industry —> Gov’t wants to control under the guise of lowering costs

Gov’t regulations of the drilling lead to domestic shortages in the oil industry —> Gov’t wants to control under the guise of windfall profits

Do we see a pattern here?


54 posted on 12/09/2008 3:15:57 AM PST by Erik Latranyi (Too many conservatives urge retreat when the war of politics doesn't go their way.)
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To: Erik Latranyi
So now in effect as a non union member taxpayer working for the private sector without any protection against being laid off at any time for any reason I will be subsidizing the job of some democratic union schmuck who will continue to make six figures with full retirement and benefits for life?

Who the hell is speaking for us?

55 posted on 12/09/2008 3:26:37 AM PST by Rome2000 (Peace is not an option)
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To: Rome2000
Who the hell is speaking for us?

The political party that does not say they are for "the little guy" every 2 seconds.

56 posted on 12/09/2008 3:30:34 AM PST by Erik Latranyi (Too many conservatives urge retreat when the war of politics doesn't go their way.)
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