Posted on 11/20/2008 5:55:46 AM PST by Red in Blue PA
I started boycotting GM after owning a Vega. Have never looked at a GM product since. I'm sure they're much improved from the '70's or they would not be in business, even if barely, 35 yrs. later.
“Yeah, those 20,000 employees on the jobs bank program couldn’t be part of the problem...”
And who exactly was it that agreed to that?
I’m not saying the unions are without guilt in this, but the blame here at FR is disproportional. When execs get huge salaries and benefits, the consensus here is along the lines of: “It’s a free market, they worked hard, if they can get it, they deserve it.” Somehow, that consensus doesn’t apply to workers.
They say the cost of benefits per car is $2k. Let’s assume the cost of benefits for the Japanese cars that are selling quite well are $500/car, (it has to cost something). If GM made a car as good as an Accord, or a Camry, I’d pay the extra $1500. But they don’t. They make crap, and they don’t stand behind their product. That is not the doing of the union.
“I started boycotting GM after owning a Vega. Have never looked at a GM product since. I’m sure they’re much improved from the ‘70’s or they would not be in business, even if barely, 35 yrs. later.”
A valid reason, the Vega was putrid. But all the car makers make clunkers. I had a Datsun 310GX that made a Vega look like a high end vehicle.
GM got better, then, when sales went up, the slipped back to their old ways. I had a Bonneville that was terrible, given what it was supposed to be. I traded the Bonneville off for a Camry. I’ll never buy another Pontiac, and most likely will avoid GM altogether.
oops, now I am embarrassed. I wrote before my first cup of coffee. It is GE that I am boycotting.
Re: When execs get huge salaries and benefits, the consensus here is along the lines of: “It’s a free market, they worked hard, if they can get it, they deserve it.” Somehow, that consensus doesn’t apply to workers.
You noticed that too;-)
Let Detroit go under then rebuild without union labor.
LOL, you can “submit a myth”. Here is what I sent them:
GM has money for websites such as this, money for the Obama campaign and money for large salaries for management. Why should my tax dollars bail them out when they apparently have such money to throw around?
Did you mean the other “General” GE?
How about just firing both the crappy Management and the crappy UAW? I don’t want to have either working for me!
Management agreed to it. However, that doesn't mean they weren't coerced by the union. Both sides are to blame. I like the fact that Troll_House_Cookies posted this earlier in the thread "Anybody see the execs get punked out yesterday about “flying to the hearing in private jets with a tin cup in hand” it was priceless."
There is plenty of blame to go around. However, those union folks should be like the rest of the world and be happy they had jobs. They have no problem walking off the job to strike for crap that the real world would shrug off. Management was too yellow to tell them to get back to work or they'd be replaced.
I’m not saying the unions are without guilt in this, but the blame here at FR is disproportional. When execs get huge salaries and benefits, the consensus here is along the lines of: “It’s a free market, they worked hard, if they can get it, they deserve it.” Somehow, that consensus doesn’t apply to workers.
Personally, I don't think executives are worth 1/10th what they get paid. That money would be better invested in R&D and PP&E. I also think, rather than golden parachutes or handcuffs, they should be given the boot, and shunned by the business world, when decisions they make turn to crap. They have this knack of taking credit for "good decisions" when the economy is good, but then blame the "bad economy" when sales drop.
GM management should have been cleaning house a long time ago. The Union should have been knocked down a peg or two at the same time. But, given that they actually designed, marketed, and produced the Pontiac Aztek, we all know where their heads were.
IIRC, if you owned a V-8 Monza in the 70s, you had to unbolt the engine and use a hoist to lift it high enough to get to the rear sparkplugs.
From WIKI:
“The V-8 engine resulted in a very crowded engine bay. One of the spark plugs could only be accessed through the driver’s side wheel well by jacking up the engine. Frequently the spark plug was not accessed at all. The comparatively heavy V-8 engine in the small Chevrolet Monza led to severe driveline vibrations due to a sagging front frame and suspension.”
EVERONE at the Big Three will have come come to reality or they'll be the Eastern Airlines of the early 21st century.
One of the sides, either management or labor needs to decide having a job that doesn't pay what it used to pay or provide the benefits it used to provide is far better than no job at all.
Someone has to grow up and show the other side how to take the medicine. Both sides are absolutely childish. I know it's tough, really tough to work for 30 years with a promise of something after you've made your contribution, but sometimes it doesn't work and you foolish not to work the system while there's a still a system to get as much out as you can.
My mom used to call it cutting off your nose despite your face.
A pox on both there houses, 50 million dollars ceo’s and retired fork lift operators who haven't produced a thing for GM in 15 plus years but stills gets more in retirement than I earn with a full time job and a part time job.
This is what happens when you depend on someone else to take care of you. You're fine so long as they are as honorable and capable as you, but once those who promised it are gone you're at the mercy of those who follow.
I am SO GLAD those ceo’s made the mistake of rubbing our noses in it when they had a chance to go before Congress and try to restore some semblance of order to the system.
They are pitiful, they are trying to add billions of top of billions that have been wasted by a system that doesn't work. Let ‘em die in each other's arms. I'm not buying their product now anyway. I tried, and all I got was trouble.
Stop bitching about your pay and benefits and start worrying as much about me being able to buy a car that can run for 8 or 10 years with minimal trouble and you'll be me back. But for now I'm going to sit this one out.
yeah, I was pretty embarassed when I realized my mistake. I really need to let the coffee kick in before posting. :-)
Well you are right about GE, I especially don’t like CNBC when they shill for stocks because they have a huge conflict of interest. GE is after all 50% a financial company. They also had countless talking heads promoting GE stock at $35/share, it’s now about $12.
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