Posted on 11/19/2008 9:11:02 AM PST by kellynla
I agree whole-heartily.....However, the Catholic Church is a private organization and no one is forcing these people to be a part of it. They can set their own rules. They will grow or shrink based upon people's reaction to these kind of issues
Except where those infractions enjoy popular support.
“And my relationship with God is between myself and God alone. Old men doing political jockying in church offices making threats are insignificant and of no consiquence. They are just men, failable and weak. The have no leverage on my, or anyones, relationship with God.”
Perhaps that explains the present state of affairs.
BTW, how many different “Christian” denominations are in existence today, 5000? That speaks volumes about “personal interpretation” … and your ideas.
Shhhh, your intelligent comment is going to bust that poster’s delusions. XD
Thanks NMMom!!!
“...Making it automatic means no chance at redemption exists....”
Wrong. Redemption does exist. Read the Catholic Catechism and Canon Law.
[[The State couldn’t tell the church what to think or do, and the church couldn’t tell the State what to think or do.]]
This is hte only correct statement you made- although it MUST be clarified even further- The Church can recommend to the state, and the State can recommend to hte church- but neither can FORCE the other- Anti-Christians however take the ‘seperation of church and state’ WAY too far changing it’s original intentions to somethign it NEVER meant. The constitition ALSO mentions freedom OF religion- not freedom FROM religion. State officials ARE free to worship and express their religions in public, and even to have religious beliefs shape hteir opinions.
The ‘seperation of church and state’ issue applies to the GOVERNING of either side- The State is prevented by our constitution from forcing the church to change their internal governings- the State can NOT force the church to decide matters- and that sir is hte crux of the whole issue- Neither can the church FORCE the state to govern or change the governments internal governing-
In England- the Church did EXACTLY this- they FORCED the government to abide by the church’s own personal governings- and our founding fathers wanted to prevent this kind of corruption from ever happenign again, and thus our constitution- NOWHERE in our constituion however is it EVER mentioned that the government must abstain from anythign religious or that they must abstain fro m freely expressing hteir own personal religious beleifs and convictions- The whole reason we have a ‘balance’ in opur government is to allow EVERY manner of opinion- religious or not- and the majority rule can overirde or accept any opinion they like as long as it is constituiional, and it protects the TRUE rights of individuals of all faiths or non faiths.
The church of England trampled all over the rights of people, and we, the USA, decided that that kind of corruption should never happen again, but at hte same time, we as a nation recognized the value of certain religious beliefs because they infact DO protect all rights, and we decided that those rights and opinions should forever be protected as well under our constitution.
Secularism does NOT protect ALL rights- Complete secularism tramples all over the rights of religious folks, and quite frankly, Secularism is nothign but a rleigion in and of itself dressed up in government garb, and paraded around as beign the most tolorant when infact is is nothign of hte kind- it amoutns sir to a overnment ENFORCED religious beleif that God should not be any part of our government- Secularism is a true religious beleief inthat it ardently and fervently beleives in an idea that quite frankly violates our constitution and hte protection of religion and expression- it also violates the right to free speech. Secularists however are loathe to even admit this, but htis is a FACT.
I don’t know if you are being obtuse or just don’t know any better, but in case you are both or just dim, I’ll elaborate.
I would never even think of giving G_d advice, I’m commenting on the weasel word “could” in the title of the post.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Excuse me? Please elaborate.
“Since when can the church tell the state what to do, “or else”.”
Don’t be stupid. Excommunicating a person for killing a child is not telling the state what to do.
The person in question gets too make a choice. You have no RIGHT to call yourself a Catholic or participate in the sacrament of of communion.
“Aside from the politicians, what about the rank and file? The majority of Catholics went for Obama...if they are going to be consistent, shouldn’t they be excommunacated too? But I have to hand it to this Father Corapi for at least trying to make a stand.”
A wonderful couple of questions that I wanted to quote to bring back to the table.
Which sin is greater, the sin of the politician, or the sin of the voter that put the politician in office?
I love him. You have an address that I may have,please?
[[Making it automatic means no chance at redemption exists.]]
If a person is born again- thgen you are forever redeemed, regardless of some wonky church beliefs- Once you accept Christ as Savior, you’re name is forever written in the Lamb’s book of life, and no man can erase that- including ourselves- it’s permanent
Yep- being excomunicated would suck, but you’re never excomunicated from the Grace of God, nor do you lose your redemption- Paul went to great lengths to explain this to the early church who beleived they could lose their salvation. The blood redemption of animal sacrifices that covered the people’s sins was temporary, and God knew this system was not working, and thus the great final, once for all blood sacrifice of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ whos work was ‘finished’ on the cross. It is done- Man’s sins are now completely washed i nthe blood of Christ IF they accept Him as Lord and Savior. Beleiving that we can lose our redemption is to state that Christ’s shed blood was no better than an animal’s shed blood, and His great and selfless sacrifice would have been for nothing when all we would have to do is to keep sacrificing animals a coupel of times a year to ‘cover our sins’. No- Christ’s blood is permanent redemption.
“Once you accept Christ as Savior, you’re name is forever written in the Lamb’s book of life”
Ahh, but if you had REALLY accepted Christ as your Savior, you wouldn’t be voting to kill babies, now would you?
Perhaps you are just a fraud... I doubt that that will get you into the “book of life”....
Although I’m against abortion, I’ve been trying to get taken of the rolls for several years. Why can’t *I* get excommunicated???
If they choose to serve Ba’al, let them be known as Ba’alists, not Catholics.
This is what I found...
Secton on the Vatican Website: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/
Mailing Address: Palazzo delle Congregazioni, 00193 Roma, Piazza Pio XII, 10
Telephone: 06.69.88.43.16; 06.69.88.43.18
Fax: 06.69.88.34.99
Wow- where the heck did your comment come from?
Christians CAN be wrong- Christians CAN sin- BUT this does NOT mean you lose your salvation- When a person is born again- they don’t suddenly become perfect individuals who never sin again- my goodness- this is proven by the fact that the Jews HAD to keep sacrificing animals.
i NEVER said I voted for abortion- I did n’t vote for Obama- All I am saying is that God’s grace is so full of His complete love for us that He saves us imperfect sinning people once and for all through the blood sacrifice of His Son who selflessly laid down His own life for us- Greater love has never been demonstrated.
Instead of trying to pluck out hte splinter in other’s eyes- concentrate on the plank in your own eye- My comment was ONLY on the fact that although a person CAN sin and might not feel that abortion is wrong, and are then excommunicated from the church, this does NOT mean that they are cast out of the Lambs book of life.
The greatest sacrifice ever was by Christ who died for SINNERS- who by the way are STILL sinners even after salvation. A person CAN be saved and still beleive abortion is fine- although they are WRONG, it is the Holy Spirit’s job to sanctify them at His own pace- not yours or mine! Yuo and I can NOT stand around pointing out the splinter in their eye when the FACT is that we have planks in our own eyes and yet WE ARE saved as well as the the person who has a particular sin in theirl ife such as beleif in abortion. When you become perfect- please let us all know- We’ll all bow down and call you Christ at that point
I always love it when posters come armed with actual information to answer posters who spout cliches.
You did marvelously!
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