"Paw-Key-Stawn"

09/26/2008 | PhilosopherStones

[PhilosopherStones]

Thanks DUmmie!

You make a claim that you can’t back up and then resort to name calling.

I’m sorry, which “dumb mistake” did I make?

[linn37]

When Obama says tali-bon , i hear that ridiculous banana song in the back of my head.

[linn37]

Is that a picture from tonights debate? Scary!

[PhilosopherStones]

Everybody is spinning this at the moment (at least on Fox), but I do believe that it’s going to be these little things that people will remember.

[savedbygrace]

I’ve been to Pakistan, and Obama doesn’t have the same pronunciation for Pakistan that Pakistanis have.

[AnotherUnixGeek]

You make a claim that you can’t back up and then resort to name calling.

I didn't resort to name-calling, I replied to it. As they say on the playground - don't start if you can't take it, whiner.

I’m sorry, which “dumb mistake” did I make?

You mispronounce proper nouns and claim that those who don't have your problems with pronunciation are "insecure" and "pseudo-intellectual". That's pretty dumb.

[AnotherUnixGeek]

I’ve been to Pakistan, and Obama doesn’t have the same pronunciation for Pakistan that Pakistanis have.

So have I (and didn't enjoy the experience). Obama's pronunciation is closer to that which Pakistanis use even if not native-speaker correct. I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to get a name right - there are plenty of good reasons not to like Obama.

[JerseyHighlander]

Obama had two or three Pakistani legal/illegal/student immigrants/transients as friends during his Colombia days. He has travelled to Pakistan, and he said Pakistan how Pakistanis with a proper British enunciation say it on a daily basis.

Which makes sense since his hosts in Pakistan were educated and respectable enough to have their sons travel to NYC in the 1970’s, well before the influx of Pakistanis into the NYC metro area.

[John W]

This is where you started the Obama defense:

“Actually Obama is using the correct pronunciation for “Pakistan” ...”

Now:

“Obama’s pronunciation is closer to that which Pakistanis use even if not native-speaker correct.”

Just for the record.

[savedbygrace]

To my hearing, there’s enough of a difference that 0 sounds like he’s trying to effect an accent, but not quite getting it.

[AnotherUnixGeek]

This is where you started the Obama defense:

“Actually Obama is using the correct pronunciation for “Pakistan” ...”

Now:

“Obama’s pronunciation is closer to that which Pakistanis use even if not native-speaker correct.”

Just for the record.

Obama's pronunciation sounds to me like Pakistanis' own pronunciation for their country's name. Another poster claimed it wasn't quite the same. I think they're the same, but it's possible this other poster detects some subtle difference, so I threw in the qualification. So?

[TurtleStink]

Based on his saying Pakistan that way he should be made to sit in the corner with no supper and a dunce cap on his head.

Hated it everytime. Elitist, metrosexual, snob.

Also noticed on the debate thread tonight there were alot of trolls. We should smoke them out. Review who they were. If they said Obama did good they are a troll absolutely.

[PhilosopherStones]

So please respond to my post about the “proper pronunciation” of various place names. And please, justify your response.

Can’t wait.

[PhilosopherStones]

Here’s my point.

In America, we pronounce “Paris” as “pare-iss”. Of course, in France, they prounouce it “Pare-ee”. There isn’t a “correct” pronunciation, only which language and culture one decides is more important when talking to others of their own culture.

NOTE: When I lived in France for 13 years, I pronounced it “pare-ee”. When I moved back to the States, I returned to pronouncing it “pare-iss”.

Just depends on who you’re trying to impress.

[AnotherUnixGeek]

So please respond to my post about the “proper pronunciation” of various place names. And please, justify your response.

The proper pronunciation of all of those place names is whatever the majority of the residents of those places say it is.

[PhilosopherStones]

Of “those” places?

So Americans should pronounce “Moscow” as “musk-va”?
Americans should pronounce “Montreal” as “moan-ray-al”?
Americans should pronounce “Des Moines” as “day-mwan”?
Americans should pronounce “Los Angeles” as “lowss-angle-ez”?
Americans should pronounce “Sweden” as “svenska”?

I guess they should also prounonce “Detroit” as “day-twa”.
Or “New Orleans” as “noo-velle-or-lee-ahn”.

[Kevmo]

Yes, the official song of tonight’s debate:
“Come Mister Tolly Bon, Tolly me Obama”

ZerO! ZEEEEEEERO

Obama Come and I wanna go home

ZerO! ZEEEEEEERO

He got bracelet, I got one too.

Come Mister Tolly Bon, Tolly me Obama
Obama Come and I wanna go home

[Kevmo]

Excerpt from Huckleberry Finn:

“Why, Huck, doan’ de French people talk de same way we does?”

“No, Jim; you couldn’t understand a word they said- not a single word.”

“Well, now, I be ding-busted! How do dat come?”

“I don’t know; but it’s so. I got some of their jabber out of a book. Spose a man was to come to you and say ‘Polly-voo-franzy’- what would you think?”

“I wouldn’t think nuff’n; I’d take en bust him over de head. Dat is, if he warn’t white. I wouldn’t ‘low no nigger to call me dat.”

“Shucks, it ain’t calling you anything. It’s only saying do you know how to talk French.”

“Well, den, why couldn’t he say it?”

“Why, he is a-saying it. That’s a Frenchman’s way of saying it.”

“Well, it’s a blame’ ridicklous way, en I doan’ want to hear no mo’ ‘bout it. Dey ain’ no sense in it.”

[Kevmo]

Excerpt from Huckleberry Finn (with N-word redaction, in case this turns into some kind of sensitive PC topic):

“Why, Huck, doan’ de French people talk de same way we does?”

“No, Jim; you couldn’t understand a word they said- not a single word.”

“Well, now, I be ding-busted! How do dat come?”

“I don’t know; but it’s so. I got some of their jabber out of a book. Spose a man was to come to you and say ‘Polly-voo-franzy’- what would you think?”

“I wouldn’t think nuff’n; I’d take en bust him over de head. Dat is, if he warn’t white. I wouldn’t ‘low no n|@@&r to call me dat.”

“Shucks, it ain’t calling you anything. It’s only saying do you know how to talk French.”

“Well, den, why couldn’t he say it?”

“Why, he is a-saying it. That’s a Frenchman’s way of saying it.”

“Well, it’s a blame’ ridicklous way, en I doan’ want to hear no mo’ ‘bout it. Dey ain’ no sense in it.”

[AnotherUnixGeek]

So Americans should pronounce “Moscow” as “musk-va”?

We inherit England's names for other European nations and cities. "Moscow" was used by Russians as long ago as 1147 AD, before the more modern Russian pronunciation of "Moskva", and the English name is based on that. But you're not talking about using old historical names for "Pakistan" or "Taliban" - you're just saying it's a good thing to mispronounce them.

And yes, we probably should use the modern Russian name. Most of us managed the transition to "Beijing" from "Peking" without too many tears, and I imagine we could handle this.

Americans should pronounce “Des Moines” as “day-mwan”? Americans should pronounce “Los Angeles” as “lowss-angle-ez”?

The majority of the residents of those cities don't. Why do you think these are good examples?

Americans should pronounce “Sweden” as “svenska”?

Since "Svenska" is the name of a language and not a nation, no. You're looking for "Sverige".

I guess they should also prounonce “Detroit” as “day-twa”. Or “New Orleans” as “noo-velle-or-lee-ahn”.

Again, since the residents of those cities don't - no.