Posted on 09/12/2008 1:41:12 PM PDT by Old Sarge
Well in a town up on the I-75 Kentucky/Tenessee border called Jellico gas is so high there people are making a 50 mile round trip to the next town south to buy gas for $4.59. It's over $5 up there and gas generally is not 40-50 cents higher than Knoxville. Jellico is about 70 miles north of Knoxville which is the fuel hub.
He is an absolute idiot. If I were a gas station owner, I would shut down and not sell another drop of gas until he lifts the state of emergency.
"Self" is what a Randite libertian doesn't get over. I'm fine with looking out for others.
That is like saying, "If you accept tax money for defense, you better dang well expect people will take tax money to pay for abortions."
But New Orleans/Baton Rouge hub of refineries cannot supply the entire South, which is what is required without the Houston refineries.
There are refineries in Lake Charles, Louisiana area that are probably shut down because they are very close to the landfall of Ike.
And New Orleans/Baton Rouge is still recovering from Hurricane Gustav. Some of those refineries went offline after Gustav, which was only on September 1.
Overnight recovery is not possible.
And Operations Managers in Tropical Storm or Hurricane conditions cannot risk their oil refinery blowing up because of an accident because of high winds or other problems in Tropical Storm conditions.
Baton Rouge just last Friday had 110,000 homes/businesses out of power out of a total of 150,000 that were Entergy Customers (formerly Gulf States Utilities).
They almost could not play the LSU game this week with the game cancelled last week because of the terrible conditions in Baton Rouge.
This week, LSU had the contingency of playing in the Superdome (New Orleans), Independence Bowl (Shreveport), Cowboy Stadium (Irving/Dallas, TX), and LSU Tiger stadium.
Even with 4 contingencies, they still almost did not have a place to play -- until it was clear that Ike would hit Houston earlier this week...
If necessary (and there would be time) such things as gasoline would have to be rationed in a national or regional crisis.
That doesn’t comply with the rigid, religious tenents of libertarianism, but it is how a body of people must act.
If necessary (and there would be time) such things as gasoline would have to be rationed in a national or regional crisis.
That doesn’t comply with the rigid, religious tenents of libertarianism, but it is how a body of people must act.
Thanks, that made me smile.
“So? storing gas in garages or barns is used for mowers and such, why is that a problem? And So? storing gas in garages or barns is used for mowers and such, why is that a problem? And the more it’s sold, the lower the price should be, not the other way around. If it weren’t, when people stop buying it, because it’s too high or they can’t afford it, the price does come down.”
Your post lacks a certain touch of reality. When more people are competing for the same resource, or the same amount of people are competing for a dwindling resource, price has to go up. The problem with customers buying more than they need is that they are allocating a resource that could be put to other uses (i.e., in other people’s cars).
Saying, “the more it’s sold, the lower the price should be,” is true in the case of expanded supply. But when supply is contracting, it is not a good thing for everyone to “buy more.” The aim is to give access to as many people as possible, not to allow each individual to buy as much as possible.
In this case, a case of potentially restricted supply, low prices are not good for the consumer. Why? Because dwindling supply being sold at a frozen price will not bring about market equilibrium. Market equilibrium only comes in those rarest of rare cases when supply equals demand at a particular price. Given that demand varies inversely with price, higher prices will decrease demand. If oil supply is interrupted, sellers have to raise the price to bring demand in line with supply. It’s as simple as that.
How is a hurricane a “national security issue”? We aren’t being invaded by an army in Kentucky.
Hey, “Unhinged,” you are apparently incapable of answering the questions I’ve posed to you:
1. How is government not impinging on the above when enforcing anti-gouging laws? Whose “liberty” and “Happiness” should be punished to make you happy between the gas station owner who needs to buy expensive gas and the consumer who wants it cheap?
2. You say:
“Government is there to keep powerful interests from being tyrannical. “
Then you say:
“Price gouging profiteering in vital commodities (and the inherent trust that brings it, even if unstated) is tyrannical.”
Where on earth do you get that definition of government or that idea on “price gouging”? How can you have tyrannical control of commodities, unless you are a government?
Are you incapable of answering simple questions of logic?
If you are going to cap prices, you need to ration. Otherwise, there will be no gas. Panic buying will ensue and black markets will develop. Politicians will never learn.
“If necessary (and there would be time) such things as gasoline would have to be rationed in a national or regional crisis.
That doesn’t comply with the rigid, religious tenents of libertarianism, but it is how a body of people must act”
While I cannot deny that there are exigent circumstances when some authority has to step in to ration a resource (like if we were in a castle that was under seige, for instance). More often than not, however, the most efficient way to ration a resource is through market prices. If market prices allow me to eat every day, why can’t they ensure that I have as much gas as anyone else in an emergency?
The problem with central rationing is that they just aren’t as good at it as private enterprises. Why? Because when a gas station owner srews up his calculations, he goes out of business. When a bureaucrat screws up, he can raise his hands and blame the Gods. Every instance of price-fixing in history that I know of resulted in shortages or surpluses (depending upon whether prices were set too low or too high, respectively).
You are mistaken. Predatory pricing laws will lead to gas shortages. Price caps must be accompanied by rationing. The problem with rationing is that there is no system to enforce rationing. Predatory pricing laws will lead to panic buying and black markets. These price spikes are signal of a severe shortage. Government cannot increase production, the only cure for a severe shortage.
Your assertion that the gas currently in inventory should be priced consummate with its cost is not correct. Market conditions determine the price. The situation with gasoline is not different than any other good or service in short supply. You could make the same assertion about the housing market. Suddenly houses become more expensive because demand increases. You are not going to sell your home for a lower price because you bought it when the price was low.
Your questions are ludicrously easy to answer. Have you ever heard the term "corner the market?" Or, "company store?" Have you heard of H.L. Hunt, for one example? Have you heard what George Soros did with the UK Pound? Do you know about AT&T? John D. Rockefeller?
Do you know what a cartel is?
Don't bother to answer though. I'm through with you.
Actually, I lean towards your theoretical statements here. I just refuse to induce as much.
Because my questions are easy, you can’t answer them?
That says much.
I’m through with you, too.
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