Beam me to Planet Gore !
Posted on 09/07/2008 8:41:08 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
Actually, it is you who keep citing homosexual publications that advocate anal sex to rebut scientists like Duesberg who say the fast-track homosexual lifestyle causes AIDS. But beyond your disgusting crusade to vindicate homosexuality, what really bothers me is that we have both been told by the mods to steer clear of each other. Why do you insist on following me around and making a mockery of the mods?
I follow you around because you are practicing medicine without a licence, and because your advice, if taken seriously, would kill people.
Um, GGG, you're the one who is arguing that having anonymous gay intercourse with multiple partners is perfectly safe, so long as one does not use drugs while doing so.
I doubt any of the people you posted to share your views on the safety of drug-free gay orgies.
You're 100% correct in my case. I have no use for fagots with or without dope.
Neither do I have any use for nut jobs like the poster.
I have nothing against homosexuals, in general. But only a loon would deny that the largest vectors for the spread of AIDS has been promiscuous male gay sex, followed by the sharing of needles for drug use.
Did the promiscuous gay sex involve the use of drugs? I'm sure that much of it did, but the (non-intravenous)drug use in no way directly led to the transmittal of AIDS.
I have a feeling that this poster is mixing up correlation with causation- homosexuals who use illegal drugs are also likely to engage in other risky behavior, such as unprotected sexual activity with numerous partners.
We aren't talking about other STD's here- we're talking about HIV/AIDS. Your attempt to change the subject notwithstanding, at the end of the day your position still remains that, at least when it comes to AIDS, drug-free gay orgies are perfectly safe.
But a growing number of scientists and medical doctors, many of them at the very apex of their respective fields, are claiming that HIV does not cause AIDS
They may be growing, but they constitute a miniscule percentage of respectable medical opinion on the subject.
If, on the other hand, you prefer to remain ignorant and ineffective on this timely and important conservative issue, then by all means bury your heads in the sand and remain part of the problem. The choice is up to you.
The claim that drug-free gay orgies are safe when it comes to HIV/AIDS is a conservative issue? Who knew?
Anytime science is prostituted to achieve political objectives, it is a conservative issue. In the case of AIDS, science is being prostituted to achieve a left-wing political agenda, which is also a conservative issue. As for “drug-free gay orgies,” the fast-track lifestyle is so extreme that it cannot be sustained without massive amounts of immunotoxic drugs. Try to think like a toxicologist for a moment. What does the following chart tell you???:
Table 3. CDC 1983*: Drug use by American male
homosexuals with AIDS and at risk for AIDS.
Drugs: Percentage users among 50 AIDS cases and 120 at risk for AIDS
Nitrite inhalants 96%
Ethylchloride 35–50%
Cocaine 50–60%
Amphetamines 50–70%
Phenylcyclidine 40%
LSD 40–60%
Metaqualone 40–60%
Barbiturates 25%
Marijuana 90%
Heroin 10%
Drug-free NONE REPORTED!
That there is a high correlation between drug use and HIV/AIDs infection. Which isn't surprising- people who use illegal drugs are also likely to engage in other risky behavior, such as promiscuous and unsafe homosexual sex. Illegal drug use lowers inhibition and impairs judgment. Some of the drugs listed, such as heroin, are also injected, so there's also the issue of shared needles.
You are making the classic mistake of confusing correlation with causation. The drug use doesn't directly cause HIV/AIDS- it's the risky activities that high people engage in that leads to infection. You're acting like you've made some novel discovery, but all your evidence shows is that drug users tend to engage in other risky behavior.
Agreed.
==You are making the classic mistake of confusing correlation with causation.
That is of course possible. But remember, confusing correlation with causation is a two-way street. Let's superimpose drug use and HIV infection over the AIDS statistics and see which one provides a better explanation for what causes of AIDS. Notice that the rate of HIV infection is flatlined, whereas the drug epidemic in the US and Europe has a near perfect correlation with the rise of AIDS cases :
==The drug use doesn't directly cause HIV/AIDS- it's the risky activities that high people engage in that leads to infection.
I don't see how you can say that when it is a demonstrable fact that the drugs that IV drug addicts and fast-lane homosexuals use cause AIDS defining diseases without the presence of HIV.
AIDS cases trail infection rates. Though someone may be infected in one year, they may not develop AIDS for several years thereafter. That explains how though HIV infection rates may go down, AIDS cases can continue to rise. But, in any event, your top chart shows that as HIV cases go down, AIDS cases have gone down, too, if I'm reading it correctly. And I'd like to see that chart extended through a more recent year than 2000.
I'm also not sure what to make of the fact that the first and third charts measure AIDS, HIV and drug deaths using different scales of magnitude.
I don't see how you can say that when it is a demonstrable fact that the drugs that IV drug addicts and fast-lane homosexuals use cause AIDS defining diseases without the presence of HIV.
I would not be surprised that drug afficts catch some of the same diseases as people infected with HIV. Continuous drug abuse, along with the lifestyle of many addicts (poor nutrition, lack of sleep, lack of hygiene, homelessness, prostitution, exposure to physical violence) all have negative impacts on a person's immune system. Of course such people, even without being HIV-positive, are going to fall prey to many of the same diseases as people with AIDS- those diseases opportunistically go after people with weakened immune systems, whether due to AIDS, lifestyle or a combination of both. At the end of the day, AIDS does nothing more than weaken a person's immune system to the point where the body cannot defend itself from diseases. It's not surprising that people with weakened immune systems due to other causes will find themselves in a similar situation.
==AIDS cases trail infection rates.
The AIDS cases are not trailing HIV infection. The rate of HIV infection has remained flatlined THE WHOLE TIME.
==Of course such people, even without being HIV-positive, are going to fall prey to many of the same diseases as people with AIDS...(so) It’s not surprising that people with weakened immune systems due to other causes will find themselves in a similar situation.
So how do we tell which is which??? In other words, let’s suppose a HIV-positive drug addict comes in with a weakened immune system and suffering from an AIDS defining disease. How could we possibly indentify the underlying cause of his disease? It could be HIV, it could be drugs, it could be malnutrition. How would we tell the difference?
In the case of the HIV-infected homeless drug addict, any doctor can tell you that all of the various things involved have served to compromise his immune system. The HIV/AIDS have just made an already bad situation even worse.
As a counterexample, look at someone like Magic Johnson who is HIV+, but lives a lifestyle of diet, medication and exercise that allows him to keep the disease in check more or less indefinitely. He's the flipside of the drug-addicted homeless person who is HIV+
To figure out the effect of HIV infection, you compare one group of drug addicts who are not HIV positive with a similar group of drug addicts who are, then look at the relative rate of diseases arising from compromised immune systems. You'll find instances of such diseases in both groups, but the rate for the HIV infected drug addicts will be, over the long-term, significantly higher.
You are quite correct that living a life of drug abuse and promiscuous homosexual orgies (with all of the attendant STDs and other health issues) is bad for one's immune system. But that lifestyle, even if it leads to getting certain AIDS-like diseases, is not the cause of AIDS. It can simply lead to health situations that are similar to AIDS, however.
==As a counterexample, look at someone like Magic Johnson who is HIV+, but lives a lifestyle of diet, medication
Last I heard, Magic Johnson discontinued his AIDS chemotherapy drugs over a decade ago.
==You are quite correct that living a life of drug abuse and promiscuous homosexual orgies (with all of the attendant STDs and other health issues) is bad for one’s immune system. But that lifestyle, even if it leads to getting certain AIDS-like diseases, is not the cause of AIDS. It can simply lead to health situations that are similar to AIDS
Again, at this stage of the game, scientists can’t tell the difference. Moreover, the AIDS establishment has put the kibash on all attempts by scientists to resolve the issue. And if they can’t tell the difference, then they can’t be sure what’s really causing AIDS.
That would explain why Magic Johnson sponsors almost a dozen AIDS clinics.
The Los Angeles-based AIDS Healthcare Foundation on Monday will open in Jacksonville, Fla., an Earvin "Magic" Johnson Jr. Clinic for HIV/AIDS, which will offer HIV testing, medical care and social services, the Florida Times-Union reports. Although this will be the first Magic Johnson clinic in Florida, AHF operates 10 such clinics in California and a jointly operated medical office and pharmacy in New York. AHF President Michael Weinstein said that the Jacksonville site was chosen "because of need in the area," as the Florida Health Department says that one in 156 Floridians are HIV-positive. "Jacksonville is representative of a lot of medium-type cities where there is limited access to care," Weinstein said, adding that AHF expects 200 patients to use the clinic in its first year. The clinic, open to all patients regardless of insurance coverage or ability to pay, will offer initial HIV testing; disease monitoring, including radiology and laboratory tests; and treatment for HIV/AIDS, with the option of participating in clinical research trials. In addition, the clinic will provide social services such as "public benefits counseling, mental health counseling and 24-hour access to medical advice." The goal of the clinic, which uses Magic Johnson's name because he is a "symbol of hope and success in AIDS treatment," is to see patients within 48 hours of first contact, as the average wait time is currently one to three months. "That's like telling someone who has just been diagnosed with cancer to wait," Robert Catalla, the clinic's medical director, said, adding, "That's unacceptable" (Skidmore, Florida Times-Union, 7/24). For more information on HIV/AIDS in Florida, visit State Health Facts Online.
Has anyone mentioned that in addition to practicing medicine without a license, you are also a shameless, criminally insane liar?
You've never provided any evidence of this. The only article I remember you pointing to as evidence only dealt with an incident where Magic stopped taking his medications during a cruise he went on with his wife, in order to avoid nausea. But your claim that he stopped taking his AIDS drugs a decade ago is pure wishful thinking on your part. Other than the handful of people who seem to have a natural immunity to HIV/AIDS, an HIV+ person who stops taking their medication can expect to be dead in a very short time.
Again, at this stage of the game, scientists can’t tell the difference. Moreover, the AIDS establishment has put the kibash on all attempts by scientists to resolve the issue. And if they can’t tell the difference, then they can’t be sure what’s really causing AIDS.
Telling the difference is quite easy, statistically. Look at a population of people who are HIV+ and compare them to a similar population (in terms of age, lifestyle, other illnesses etc.) of people without the disease. The HIV+ group is going to die a lot sooner than the control group. There are homosexuals who survived the promiscuous bath-house lifestyle of the 80's because they dodged a bullet and didn't get infected with HIV. But virtually every homosexual who lived that lifestyle and got infected is dead now.
Again, you're assuming no one else has ever thought about this, but the evidence is overwhelming that if you take two people who are otherwise similar demographically, and one of them becomes infected with HIV, that person is looking at an earlier death.
Good catch. If Magic was off his AIDS meds and believed they were dangerous, then sponsoring clinics that give out free AIDS drugs would make him a monstrous hypocrite. i really don’t think that’s the case.
The simplest way to refute this crap is to point out that back in 1996 , when GGG stopped paying attention to reality, the gay community tried to deny the link between AIDS and HIV, and tried to deny the usefulness of drugs.
What happened is that the denier community died of AIDS, and drug cocktails with fewer side effects were developed. It’s still nasty stuff, but there’s a FReeper MD who has treated 1200 patients without losing one since the late 90s. Prior to the drugs, all his AIDS patients died. It’s really pretty simple.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.