Idiot Economics

Town Hall ^ | Monday, August 11, 2008 | David Strom

[Delacon]

ping

[mouse1]

Keep supporting our congress heros that are still in Washington!!

We need a vote
Nazi Pelosi AmericanVoices@mail.house.gov

We need emergency session
President Bush comments@whitehouse.gov
202-456-1111

John Boehner invited McCain to join them
McCain needs to get his a$$ to Washington where he belongs
It will bring the much needed media attention
http://www.johnmccain.com/Contact/

[TheWasteLand]

I’ve always found it interesting that the government, an organization that steals its income by threat of imprisonment and still can’t break even, always wants to go after companies that earn their income by providing services people want, and turn a healthy profit to boot.

[highlander_UW]

“Progressives” don’t seem to grasp that a positive market condition is not a windfall. A windfall is when one obtains something they had nothing to do with the production of....the taxes the government collects on a strong oil market, for instance.

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

Well said.

[nmh]

BUMP!!!!!!!!!

[trueblueconservative]

All very true. However, I think it’s interesting that a Republican governor (who I happen to kind of like)in a Republican state has decided to go for a windfall profits tax on the oil companies.

None other than Governor Sarah Palin and the state of Alaska. It will be interesting to see how it plays out up there.

I’m not in favor of punishing successful businesses, but it seems to me we’ve been giving certain tax breaks to the oil companies specifically (supposedly?) to give them the incentive and dollars to invest in new technologies and drilling. Unfortunately, it seems that those tax breaks have NOT been used as intended, they’ve just been passed on to shareholders. There are a lot of leases out there that haven’t even been explored yet.

I think we need to re-think these ‘incentives’. Maybe instead of upfront ‘incentives’, we should offer write-offs when the companies offer proof that they’ve actually invested dollars in new technologies or drilling.

[Ghost of Philip Marlowe]

Also bear in mind this one truism: there are no fees, fines, or taxes on business in economy. There is only one type of forced payment: a consumer tax.

Any regulatory fee, fine, or tax the government imposes upon a business, that business will retrieve by increasing the size of their goods and services.

So, enjoy the windfall profits ‘tax’ while it lasts. It’s only a temporary loan at a very high interest rate that each of us must repay.

[Ghost of Philip Marlowe]

size = price

[ripley]

“progressives don’t seem to grasp that a positive market condition is not a windfall.”

oh yes they do.

they are duplicitous in their objectives and they know it’s not windfall profit and they know they can convince the electorate that it is when it isn’t.

they’re setting up the industry for nationalization and a windfall for liberal/communist/socialist/progressive politicians to make themselves financially secure and to coalesce their power.

[highlander_UW]

oh yes they do. they are duplicitous in their objectives and they know it’s not windfall profit and they know they can convince the electorate that it is when it isn’t. they’re setting up the industry for nationalization and a windfall for liberal/communist/socialist/progressive politicians to make themselves financially secure and to coalesce their power.

I"m afraid you're right...at least the party elites...the rank and file seem pretty oblivious.

[ripley]

“the rank and file seem pretty oblivious.”

seems that some of the rank and file want the democrats to nationalize the oil companies; new source of income for social programs.

[highlander_UW]

seems that some of the rank and file want the democrats to nationalize the oil companies; new source of income for social programs.

My question to them would be, the politicians, democrats in particular, have run up an incredible national deficit...what sort of amazing expertise in running oil industries do they believe the politicians have that leads them to believe they will do better than those who actually know the oil industry? That central control of industry really worked well for the Soviet Union.

[spacewarp]

I’m going to ask this, as I was asked from a liberal on another board. Is it O.K. for the oil companies to get massive profits and massive subsidies at the same time? I’d say no. I don’t mind a company getting all the profit they can. But, with that said, shouldn’t their subsidies be trimmed?

Paul

[ripley]

“what sort of amazing expertise in running oil industries do they believe the politicians have that leads them to believe they will do better than those who actually know the oil industry?”

liberals are absolutely brilliant. they know everything by just looking at something. they have god-like intellects that are very special. (they confiscate industries and then coerce others who know what they’re doing to run them.)

[thackney]

Is it O.K. for the oil companies to get massive profits and massive subsidies at the same time?

What massive subsidies do you claim they get? What I see is massive tax payments.

ExxonMobil 2007
Revenue $404.6 Billion
Profit $40.6 Billion (10.0%)
Taxes $102.5 Billion (25.3%)

Sales-Based taxes $31.728B
Other taxes and duties $40.953B
Income taxes $29.864B

2007 Financial & Operating Review
http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/files/news_pub_fo_2007.pdf
Page 16

- - - - - - - - -

ConocoPhillips 2007
Revenue $194.5 Billion
Profit $11.9 Billion (6.1%)
Taxes $30.4 Billion (15.6%)

Taxes other than income taxes $18.990B
Income taxes $11.891B

2007 Annual Report
http://www.conocophillips.com/NR/rdonlyres/3838234F-F20C-4BCE-AE8D-78DE29D67455/0/07RevisedARfinal.pdf
Page 60

- - - - - - - - -

Chevron 2007
Revenue $220.9 Billion
Profit $18.7 Billion (8.5%)
Taxes $35.7 Billion (16.2%)

Taxes other than income taxes $22.266B
Income taxes $13.479B

2007 Annual Report Supplement
http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/13/130102/reports/CVX_ARsupp07.pdf
Page 3

- - - - - - - - -

Marathon 2007

Revenue $62.8 Billion
Profit $4.0 Billion (6.3%)
Taxes $8.5 Billion (13.5%)

Consumer excise taxes $5.163B
Other taxes $0.394B
Income taxes $2.901B

2007 Annual Report
http://www.marathon.com/content/documents/investor_center/annual_reports/annual_report_2007_book.pdf
Page F-4

[spacewarp]

So, you’re saying we’re NOT giving money to the oil companies to drill and explore certain areas?

Yes, they’re paying a lot of taxes. But, they’re also getting a lot of money. Nowhere near what they’re paying.

I’d say let’s cut out their subsidies, and then we don’t have the government meddling in that. We can cut their tax amount by the same amount. Less taxation is always a good thing. Less government largesse is also always a good thing.

Paul

[thackney]

So, you’re saying we’re NOT giving money to the oil companies to drill and explore certain areas?

No, we charge them money to drill and explore.

Oil and Gas Lease Sales in Gulf of Mexico Attract $3.7 Billion
http://www.gomr.mms.gov/homepg/whatsnew/newsreal/2008/080319.pdf

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/co/programs/oil_and_gas/Lease_Sale/20080.Par.88863.File.dat/May%2008%20Final%20Results.pdf

http://www.blm.gov/wy/st/en/info/news_room/2008/08/05ogsale-results.html

I’d say let’s cut out their subsidies

What subsidies?

[spacewarp]

O.K.

Given the comments on the other side of the aisle, I was led to believe (actually slammed for not accepting the premise of) that there were certain tax-based incentives/giveaways that were being given to the oil companies to offset the losses they were incurring from the times when oil was in the $8-10 a barrel range.

I believe that if that is the case, then we should cut out the give-aways, and replace them with reductions in taxes. Frankly, that will cut the legs out from under our liberal lying adversaries.

If you are correct and they’re not giving any subsidies, then great. Let McCain propose that any subsidies that can be shown to benefit the Oil companies be cut. That would slice the legs out from Obambi and his allies.

Anything we can do to show the Liberals are Liars.