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Finally, a breakthrough on how to harness solar power
NEWKERALA.COM ^ | Aug 1, 2008 | NA

Posted on 08/01/2008 7:52:39 PM PDT by neverdem

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To: Onelifetogive; El Gato; Robert A. Cook, PE; lepton; All
This is just the weekly “We’ve solved the problems with solar power” breakthrough announcement. Stay tune next week for the next solution that will save the world again...

I seriously doubt that. When you check the abstract, you find that from the time the paper was submitted, June 19, 2008, to the time it was accepted, July 18, 2008, is very short for the scientific literature.

21 posted on 08/01/2008 9:09:11 PM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
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To: chaos_5
Actually, Chaos, I'm pretty skeptical on this kind of stuff. But if true and scalable, this would be pretty important. The problem with Solar, as you point out, is that it's completely goofy in its inconsistency.

Think of this process as a battery. The electrical energy is converted into H2, which can then be converted back into electricity at convenient times. It lets you smooth out the power generation by solar and wind. Economic solar electric is the sole remaining barrier. Until we have a good "battery," economic solar was just a niche market. A good battery could make it a mass market.

22 posted on 08/01/2008 9:14:15 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: El Gato
this one uses sunlight directly, just like plants do.

No. The path is Sunlight->Electricity->Hydrogen. The hydrogen could then be used to run nightime generators (good idea) or, more dubiously, cars.

23 posted on 08/01/2008 9:16:40 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: ModelBreaker
lets you smooth out the power generation by solar and wind.

Now that's a good point. One of the biggest problems with wind is the fluctuations. If a large scale "battery" could be developed to smooth out the ups and down of these other energy sources they may actually become viable.

24 posted on 08/01/2008 9:19:27 PM PDT by chaos_5
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To: Onelifetogive
As for the whole Diff Eqns not helping me much...I took a LOT of graduate level Physics and Math for my Engineering Master's Degree...I'm not as dumb as I post...

Then you knew the answer before you made the statement. Been guilty of that myself. I also have an engineering master's degree, plus a couple dozen extra semester hours of (mostly) engineering grad courses. Including one course in nuclear engineering, in addition to the normal required physics and math. (I love random variables, or as my instructor put it Wandom Waribles. I got an A in that math grad class, but my wife got an A+ in the non calculus based version :( )

25 posted on 08/01/2008 9:23:43 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Vn_survivor_67-68

Yes indeed I did, which cast a bit of suspicion over it for me.


26 posted on 08/01/2008 9:37:29 PM PDT by Republican Wildcat
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To: ModelBreaker
No. The path is Sunlight->Electricity->Hydrogen.

I missed that part. Still, if it decreases the number of solar cells needed to make a fixed amount of hydrogen, (Or alternatively increases the efficiency of the sunlight to hydrogen process, it's a Good Thing.

I still would not want to burn the hydrogen, but rather use a fuel cell to convert it back to electricity, which overcomes the thermodynamic efficiency limits. Sure you get DC, but that's easy to convert to AC. In some cases it's done at very high voltages at the receiving end of a DC interconnect. The transmitting end already having converted the AC to DC. (DC is more efficient to transmit over power lines, it's been done for decades now. )

27 posted on 08/01/2008 9:57:19 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato
Not if it used the sunlight directly rather than having to turn it into electricity first. That's got to be way more efficient.

From the article:
When electricity - whether from a solar photovoltaic cell, a wind turbine or any other source - runs through the electrode, the cobalt and phosphate form a thin film on the electrode, and oxygen gas is produced.

The solar energy has to be converted into electricity first, it appears.
28 posted on 08/01/2008 10:07:11 PM PDT by FreedomOfExpression
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To: Onelifetogive
I call BS!!! Peak electricity usage is at the hottest part of the day. Peak solar generation is at...you guessed it...the hottest part of the day.

Actually, the peak a/c load lags the solar peak by a few hours.

Also, the electricity to run Nocera's new improved electrolysis does not have to come from solar cells. It could be used to store wind energy, as well as solar.

And the energy available from burning the hydrogen does not necessarily have to feed the electrical grid. It could also be used to power vehicles directly.

29 posted on 08/01/2008 10:08:44 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: neverdem

Great idea.

Too bad we need metallic cobalt and platinum to make it work.

40% of the world supply of cobalt comes from the Democratic(!) Republic of Congo. Two of the next four major suppliers are Zambia and Russia.

80% of the world supply of platinum comes from South Africa. Russia is the number two supplier.


30 posted on 08/01/2008 10:17:17 PM PDT by zeestephen
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To: neverdem

for later


31 posted on 08/01/2008 10:41:31 PM PDT by AprilfromTexas
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To: zeestephen
" 40% of the world supply of cobalt comes from the Democratic(!) Republic of Congo. Two of the next four major suppliers are Zambia and Russia."

" 80% of the world supply of platinum comes from South Africa. Russia is the number two supplier."

This reminds me of when the US was developing the SR-71 Blackbird during the late 50s early 60s, and they needed a reliable supply of Titanium.
We got our supply of Titanium for the SR-71 from Russia.
32 posted on 08/02/2008 12:10:13 AM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM .53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no GOD.)
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To: neverdem

Thank you, NeverDem! This is a great news. And I’ve been a huge fan/user of solar energy for decades. I love it; and yes, wishing I could figure out how I could store the energy. Again, excellent news.


33 posted on 08/02/2008 4:29:00 AM PDT by Alia
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To: neverdem

First, if you break water into oxygen and hydrogen, does that destroy water?

Second, does a fuel cell burn the oxygen and hydrogen to produce the energy that runs some kind of generator?


34 posted on 08/04/2008 7:36:14 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: neverdem

Another question: the article mentions the need for electrodes of cobalt and platinum.

Aren’t those exhaustible in supply?


35 posted on 08/04/2008 8:55:17 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: xzins; zeestephen
Another question: the article mentions the need for electrodes of cobalt and platinum. Aren’t those exhaustible in supply?

Second question first: See comment# 30. New sources of cobalt may yet be found. Virtually all of the platinum now used as a catalyst will be recovered. It's too expensive to ignore. There will be more research for cheaper catalysts.

36 posted on 08/04/2008 9:40:51 AM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
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To: chaos_5
OMG! What a break through!

The real breakthrough would be for FReepers to read the article before engaging in loud expulsions of gas.

37 posted on 08/04/2008 9:56:19 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: chaos_5
The only real breakthrough here is a more efficient electrolysis of water.

Yeah .... "only." Sheesh. Use your imagination for a moment, and you'll see more than a few likely applications.

38 posted on 08/04/2008 9:58:17 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: xzins
First, if you break water into oxygen and hydrogen, does that destroy water?

Yes, the water is broken down to its elements, oxygen, chemical symbol O, and hydrogen, chemical symbol H. In nature two molecules of water yield two molecules of hydrogen and one molecule of oxygen.

2H2O --> 2H2 + O2

In nature, you don't find single, free atoms of hydrogen and oxygen. However, they exist happily as what are called diatomic molecules. It's a chemistry observation, that's been known for ages. It's explained by their electrons behavior.

Second, does a fuel cell burn the oxygen and hydrogen to produce the energy that runs some kind of generator?

Yes, reforming the stuff back into two molecules of water and releasing the energy in those chemical bonds. Hydrogen likes to be in the oxidized state of water. Oxygen likes to be reduced state of water. In chemistry they are called reduction - oxidation, aka redox, reactions.

39 posted on 08/04/2008 10:07:51 AM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
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To: GOPJ
Let's pray they don't sell the technology to the Saudis ...

We have a lot more coastline to work with than the Saudis do. And, actually, when it comes to that, we have a lot more desert to pump seawater to, as well.

And, come to think of it, this is also a good way to store energy from hydroelectric plants.

40 posted on 08/04/2008 10:17:51 AM PDT by r9etb
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