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What's wrong with science as religion
Salon.com ^ | 31 Jul 08 | Karl Giberson

Posted on 07/31/2008 12:54:12 PM PDT by AreaMan

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To: allmendream

As a man of faith who has the highest regard and respect for science, I agree with you totally.


121 posted on 07/31/2008 3:33:41 PM PDT by Skooz (Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us)
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To: Soliton
Wow. You are confused.

Boy, that sure is a chickensh&t response. I apologize, I thought I was talking to a thinker. My mistake.

122 posted on 07/31/2008 3:33:56 PM PDT by lafroste (gravity is not a force. See my profile to read my novel absolutely free (I know, beyond shameless))
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To: Soliton

>> It suggests that there may not be an answer,

You’re seriously suggesting that there may be NO answer to the question “how did we get here?”, despite the fact that our existence proves that we got here somehow? Logic is clearly not your strong suit.

>> but we will never know without evidence.

This is my point exactly. The question “how did we get here?” has an answer that can never be provided by the scientific method. The scientific method is an inherently limited doctrine precisely because it relies solely on evidence.

There are certain facts of existence — such as the origins of life (your apparent inability to understand this fundamental concept notwithstanding) — which will always defy evidence. Thus, there will always be question which the scientific method is entirely incapable of answering.

It is these questions which are entirely in the realm of faith.

Earlier in this thread, we had the following exchange:

>>> Their entire theology rests on the assumption that the human mind is capable of comprehending everything in the universe

>> I hold that truth to be self evident.

Two responses. First, a “self-evident truth” is simply another word for faith. You have thus accepted a premise based on no empirical evidence whatsoever (as the premise is “self-evident” to you).

Second, prove it.

H


123 posted on 07/31/2008 3:35:34 PM PDT by SnakeDoctor (Keep Austin Quarantined ...)
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To: Soliton
Then stop spouting nonsense and provide evidence of contemporary mention of Jesus outside of the Bible.

Don't lead you life as someone who says "I don't know".

Start with Josephus a historian who lived from 37 CE - 100+CE

or Josephus on Jesus

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
124 posted on 07/31/2008 3:37:41 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 78:35 And they remembered that God was their ROCK, And the Most High God their Redeemer.)
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To: MrB
Why must it be outside the bible?

You know the answer, I am sure. The real problem these closet liberals have is a hatred for any moral authority. Thus they are at war against God.

The only moral truth for these materialistic liberals (posing as anything else on FR) is the selfish baloney they make up in their head. For their own head is really all their is and the very center of their meaningless, directionless, psychotic universe.

125 posted on 07/31/2008 3:41:03 PM PDT by Old Landmarks (No fear of man, none!)
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To: Soliton
It is easy to extrapolate from existing knowledge that the origin of our universe was a natural occurrance.

Then repeat it and have your peers review your work and then repeat creation themselves to validate it for themselves. Enough repetitions may give you some basis to believe it.

126 posted on 07/31/2008 3:51:20 PM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government.)
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To: Skooz
Thank you! Science is not a religion. Science is not anti-religion. Scientists in the USA are mostly people of faith. Most religions have no problems at all with the findings of Science, and only nut-jobs like Myers among Scientists, an “evangelical atheist” (it is not enough that he has no faith, he must go about attempting to mock and destroy that which he doesn't have), has any problems at all with religion (most of us are religious).
127 posted on 07/31/2008 3:53:08 PM PDT by allmendream (If "the New Yorker" makes a joke, and liberals don't get it, is it still funny?)
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To: Soliton
I'm not an atheist.

OK. What are you - what do you believe?

128 posted on 07/31/2008 4:02:20 PM PDT by Heartlander
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To: XeniaSt; Soliton
Tacitus (Roman historian) from Annals15.44:
But not all the relief that could come from man, not all the bounties that the prince could bestow, nor all the atonements which could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to suppress the rumor, he falsely charged with the guilt, and punished Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind.

129 posted on 07/31/2008 4:11:35 PM PDT by Heartlander
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To: Skooz
Hatred for all things 'Biblical' defines the modern Democrat party and their hardcore evolutionist allies.

Both of these groups hate American historical values, and both of these groups worship the Big Government public school monopoly.

The hardcore evolutionist on FR who claim to be small government libertarians are the worst liars of all.

The FR hardcore evolutionists worship Big Government at its very worst (public school monopoly) but claim libertarianism as a convenient, dishonest excuse for the extreme moral liberalism they spew on this conservative forum.

They are all liars of the worst kind.

130 posted on 07/31/2008 4:15:05 PM PDT by Old Landmarks (No fear of man, none!)
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To: Soliton

YOU MEAN LIKE ALL THIS WAS JUST SOME CHGANCEY ACCIDETNAL THINGY...AND ONE-CELLED ORGANISMS BEGOT SALAMANDERS WHICH BEGOT APES WHICH BEGOT YOU...?


131 posted on 07/31/2008 4:38:23 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing-----Edmund Burke)
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To: AreaMan; All

If anyone gets tired of the antagonism, this same discussion can be carried on at an ecumenical thread that I opened several weeks ago. The end result is that if any Freeper wants to have a moderated discussion on a particular topic, he can open the thread with the scientism tag (or almost whatever tag he wants) and declare it an ecumenical or even caucus thread.

Should Scientism be considered a religion on Free Republic? [ecumenical thread]
Free Republic ^ | June 30, 2008 | Kevmo
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2038869/posts
Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 4:44:00 PM by Kevmo


132 posted on 07/31/2008 4:43:15 PM PDT by Kevmo (A person's a person, no matter how small. ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Soliton

“...you can’t even prove that Jesus ever existed...”


Your’e much worse off then I thought you were.

With your very own logic YOU can’t prove Darwin existed.

When it comes right down to it, it’s not that you don’t believe God exists, it’s that you’re angry with Him.


133 posted on 07/31/2008 4:53:22 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing-----Edmund Burke)
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To: Soliton

Wow, really easy:

see posts 2, 4, 11, 15, 16....


134 posted on 07/31/2008 4:56:58 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing-----Edmund Burke)
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To: Soliton
There are very few historians or theologians who deny the historical existence of Jesus.

Do you know when the historical existence of Jesus was first questioned?

135 posted on 07/31/2008 5:04:46 PM PDT by Tribune7 (How is inflicting pain and death on an innocent, helpless human being for profit, moral?)
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To: Soliton

you can’t even prove that Jesus ever existed
***Such brash positioning is evidence that a person is so stuck in their anti-christian bias that they will not allow any disliked facts through. The anti-science attitude towards the facts behind the historicity of events is openly displayed. Such an attitude is as hostile to science as it is to christianity.


136 posted on 07/31/2008 5:09:10 PM PDT by Kevmo (A person's a person, no matter how small. ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Soliton
Science isn’t a religion. It requires evidence before belief. Religious people will believe the most ridiculous Sh** in spite of the evidence.

If we tell them science is a religion, maybe the Iranians will behead all their infidel nuclear physicists before they realize they just screwed up.

137 posted on 07/31/2008 5:12:29 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Soliton

Sheesh to be so smart you sure make lots of mistakes...!!

Emperor Constantine not only mentioned Jesus, he converted the Roman emprie to Christianity!


138 posted on 07/31/2008 5:12:56 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing-----Edmund Burke)
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To: Soliton

But do you beleive that your parents love you?

If not or if so, do you believe in the concept of love?

How is it measureable?

How do you prove it?


139 posted on 07/31/2008 5:20:10 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing-----Edmund Burke)
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To: Heartlander; Soliton

Soliton, does that mean you allow that Tacitus existed? How about Nero, Pontius Pilate, or Tiberias? All of them were historical figures, and yet the physical evidence for any particular one’s existence is much less than for Jesus Christ. Using your standard of historicity, you cannot prove that Tacitus, Nero, Pontius Pilate, nor Tiberias ever existed. As Historian Will Durant says, “the Higher Criticism has applied to the New Testament tests of authenticity so severe that by them a hundred ancient worthies- e.g., Hammurabi, David, Socrates- would fade into legend.”


140 posted on 07/31/2008 5:25:43 PM PDT by Kevmo (A person's a person, no matter how small. ~Horton Hears a Who)
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