Posted on 05/21/2008 11:54:25 AM PDT by null and void
LMAO!!
Only in Europe do people think that would actually work...
Take a look at my profile :)
You’ve pretty much nailed it, but solar/wind installations are cost-effective in remote locations where the setup can be cheaper than the cost of getting connected to the grid. I’ve even seen billboards in suburban areas that are solar-powered because with high-efficiency lights (such as LEDs) the cost is lower than even getting connected to the nearest pole.
Ah. Well. Um. *nevermind*
LOL I bet that includes government subsidies :( Well be sure and tell us when you have tripled or quadrupled your investment.
I almost decided to to invest in solar in the early 90's, but I decided to buy a few BRK.A shares instead. When your solar panels do one tenth as well as my Berkshire shares, I will start being interested.
I was actually considering a solar heat system, but again I am better off paying my heating bills with the dividends from the investment. Anything less than a 4-5 year ROI is throwing away money.
Hmmm...
You post an article showing dropping sales and state the tech will never work.
Then you state several posts into the thread that you have solar installed on your roof and are at the break even point.
People that argue with themselves like this are usually the same kind of kooks still living off the Y2K supplies stored in their bomb shelters.
Have you actually been to Japan? Few Japanese actually have a roof of their own. Those that do, do not have a lot of surface area.
I would like to have a system of my own, but here in Minnesota high sun days are rare and power from the grid is still pretty cheap.
Do both, I do... That way if the stock market crashes I can guarantee the sun will still come up the next day.
You’ve been told a million times to stop exagerating.
You take a risk any time you deal in stocks. Your knowledge of the market and the companies you invest in can minimize your risk. I don't have your skills or knowledge base to invest in businesses wisely.
I invested in something I know. I invested in a certainty.
Yes, the California taxpayers helped me a bit. I would be a fool to pay in and never get anything back, wouldn't I?
I have small interest in such things and am not even sure which side of break even I'm on right now. A quick back of the envelope run of the numbers says I'm at the point where the installation has paid for itself and I'm now extracting all but about $5 worth of my electricity from the sun, given my bills before I installed the system that's about $120 or so worth of dividends a month. That will be every month at current rates for decades to come. Any time the rates go up (and with the fuel shortages they will) my 'solar dividend' will automatically increase.
If the state ever allows me to make money, I can more than triple my output just by adding more panels, the 3kW inverter and all the utility hookups are fully paid for. Panel cost are dropping every day...
Can you assure me that given an ultra liberal congress, courts and presidency your Berkshire stocks will retain value? Can you assure me that ANY company is immune from having a CEO in cuffs precipitating the death of the company and total loss of the stock value?
Anything less than a 4-5 year ROI is throwing away money.
Some things are worth doing that might take longer to bear fruit. We would have darn few tree nuts or fruits if no one was willing to wait that many years after planting an orchard to make money.
*sigh* ...just a jab...
Well, maybe it was ‘a just jab’, too...
I don’t mean to question your post, but you probably shouldn’t have claimed to have purchased anything with your dividends from Berkshire Hathaway stock.
You are absolutely right, Berkshire doesn't pay dividends, he reinvests the dividends instead of paying them. With conservative growth stocks like BRK, I impute the dividend. I typically avoid dividend paying stocks because of the tax penalty. BRK has averaged better than 8% growth so I give it an imputed dividend of apx. 6%.
More times than I would like to admit. But on average I make much better than 10%.
I invested in something I know. I invested in a certainty.
Your expectation that fuel costs will continue to rise is not a certainty. T Bills are a certainty. Compare your investment with buying T Bills.
A quick back of the envelope run of the numbers says I'm at the point where the installation has paid for itself and I'm now extracting all but about $5 worth of my electricity from the sun, given my bills before I installed the system that's about $120 or so worth of dividends a month.
What was the total cost of your system and when did you purchase it?
If the state ever allows me to make money, I can more than triple my output just by adding more panels, the 3kW inverter and all the utility hookups are fully paid for. Panel cost are dropping every day...
How many kilowatts does one of your panels put out a day and how much did it cost?
Can you assure me that given an ultra liberal congress, courts and presidency your Berkshire stocks will retain value? Can you assure me that ANY company is immune from having a CEO in cuffs precipitating the death of the company and total loss of the stock value?
With T bills certainly.
Some things are worth doing that might take longer to bear fruit. We would have darn few tree nuts or fruits if no one was willing to wait that many years after planting an orchard to make money.
That is precisely why we don't have more power generation facilities on line right now. Smart money doesn't invest until the payoff is assured.
You would have been better off putting your money into T Bills and then buying the panels now (you said that they are cheaper). Then you would have a more productive, up to date, less costly system and a lot more money in the bank.
Betting on a sure thing is a bad idea when it is a guaranteed money loser.
Let's just say I have a bit more faith the the law of supply and demand, and a bit less faith in the US government than you do, and let it go at that, 'K?
What was the total cost of your system and when did you purchase it?
If you're going to grind the numbers to your satisfaction, (Translation: until they prove you are smarter than me) I should get you better numbers than the best of my recollection numbers I used for an estimation. I'll have to dig them out, when I'm damn good and ready.
How many kilowatts does one of your panels put out a day and how much did it cost?
Kilowatts? If you don't know the correct unit of measure, how much can we trust the rest of your figures? In any event, since one of my old roommates "borrowed" the little computer that tracked the system, I have no idea of how many kilowatt-hours the system produces on any given day. I do know that the electrical portion of my PG&E bill is typically about $5/mo. Since all you care about is money, won't that suffice?
I also don't know the original cost of the panels by themselves, as they were part of the system. Do you know how much the engine in your last car cost?
With T bills certainly
Bad news, dude. At some point the T bills and all those entitlements will end up being paid off with hyper-inflated dollars. Do you seriously think we're going to give the Chinese and our own retirees full value for what we owe them? Sure, I know for a fact I'll get back every penny I've put in Social "Security". A Micky D's hamburger may cost $3000.00, but I will get back every penny...
That is precisely why we don't have more power generation facilities on line right now.
Given the cost of putting up a coal fired plant, if everyone followed your guidelines, we'd have an electrical power system worthy of the Amish.
You would have been better off putting your money into T Bills and then buying the panels now (you said that they are cheaper). Then you would have a more productive, up to date, less costly system and a lot more money in the bank.
Really? By the same reasoning one should NEVER buy a computer!
The price drops and the performance improves on a near daily basis. Your money is always better off in T-bills, or in this case even under your mattress!
Yes kilowatts, that is what you pay on your electric bill isn't it? The fact that you pay $5/mo on your electric bill tells us very little. I pay $30 to $40 a month for electricity. Your system is worth apx. $420 a year. If you paid more than $10,000 for your system you got royally .....
I also don't know the original cost of the panels by themselves, as they were part of the system. Do you know how much the engine in your last car cost?
Why yes I do. I sell engines : ) Airplane engines in particular.
Bad news, dude. At some point the T bills and all those entitlements will end up being paid off with hyper-inflated dollars. Do you seriously think we're going to give the Chinese and our own retirees full value for what we owe them? Sure, I know for a fact I'll get back every penny I've put in Social "Security". A Micky D's hamburger may cost $3000.00, but I will get back every penny...
Do you know how the Chinese keep their Yuan "pegged"? They do it by subsidizing the dollar. I realize that we are seeing massive inflation right now but the "huge" but unspoken worry is deflation and a collapse of the financial market. You don't really think that your PVC cells are going to protect you do you?
Given the cost of putting up a coal fired plant, if everyone followed your guidelines, we'd have an electrical power system worthy of the Amish.
I know for a fact that Shell and Exxon do.
Really? By the same reasoning one should NEVER buy a computer!
You are confusing consumables with investments. I guess that is why you see your PVC system as an investment.
he price drops and the performance improves on a near daily basis. Your money is always better off in T-bills, or in this case even under your mattress!
Cash is a depreciating asset, (unless our economy goes deflationary).
Let me give you a quick economic lesson. Buy appreciating assets and sell depreciating assets.
OK. I’m damm good and ready.
I bought the system in Feb ‘01 for $9750. (Taxpayers kicked in an additional $2250)
At that time the electrical portion of my PG&E bill was about $120/mo.
I don’t know what it would be at the current rates. I think neighbors are paying in the $200-250ish range, but I’m not in a subdivision and we don’t have easily compared cookie cutter homes.
Show me how much smarter than I you are...
No, they bill me for Kilowatt-hours.
If you paid more than $10,000 for your system you got royally .....
I didn't. Neener neeener neener!
Why yes I do. I sell engines : )
LOL! Touché!
Do you know how the Chinese keep their Yuan "pegged"? They do it by subsidizing the dollar.
Yep. And the will keep doing it as long as they can afford to! We bankrupted the old Soviet Union...
You don't really think that your PVC cells are going to protect you do you?
Only from being stuck sitting in the dark!
I know for a fact that Shell and Exxon do.
Eh? They're using Kerosene lamps?
You are confusing consumables with investments. I guess that is why you see your PVC system as an investment.
Probably. That and the fact that the system hasn't been consumed, and is part of the physical plant of my house, has raised my property value, and is making me a little money every month.
Let me give you a quick economic lesson. Buy appreciating assets and sell depreciating assets.
Advice on par with telling me the stock market will fluctuate...
How many kilowatts a month does your system produce, and how many panels do you have? Also it would be nice to know your cost per kilowatt. Mine is 300 to 400 kilowatts per month at about $.11 per kilowatt, it varies from .09 to .12.
This isn’t about being smarter than anyone else, this is about making good economic decisions. When a solar system will give me about a 10% return, I plan on purchasing one.
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