Posted on 05/21/2008 6:20:41 AM PDT by Alice in Wonderland
They really don’t read like ex’s, even though they were booted out. How could a man be ok with his wife and kids being taken and given to another? There’s a CW song about that:’)
Ping
Looks to me like they’ve been “repenting from afar”. At least their wives and children have been reassigned to another man and still have a ‘family’. These men are older “Lost Boys”. They were told to ‘get out’ and they left with nothing besides their tails between their legs.
It takes a long time to undo the brainwashing they grew up with. And even when they realize it was all an abusive scam, they’re often afraid to fight for their children because the brainwashed wives and children will follow the “prophet’s” orders to testify to a consistent set of lies about the father. Little chance of getting custody of the children, and a big chance of causing major stress in the children’s lives.
That may be some of what’s going on here, when they’re telling the court what wonderful mothers the children have — it’s reducing the chance that the mothers will set up an adversarial custody fight against the father. If the fathers say that the mothers are wonderful and that the “church” isn’t abusive, the “prophet” is more likely to give the okay to the mothers to agree to place the children with the fathers.
re: These men are older “Lost Boys”.
very perceptive observation
They may have been told to leave the cult but they are not ex-followers. You heard them talking about Jeff’s tactics, but then they praise their ex-wives? Of course, I bet these “wives” they claim were never legally married to them in the first place. Either you are married or not.
I thought about that too, but almost all of the lost boys were/are kicked out before they can aquire a “wife”. These men appear to be a founder-type but lower on the cult food chain with no real authority. That way it would have been easier to kick them out and probably because someone was “coveting his neighbor’s wife”.
Yep,
Make the sin a law and all is well. /sarc
It’s very interesting how transparent all the motivations are.
"As marathon court battles continued in Texas today over the future of 464 FLDS children, two Utahns who were kicked out of the group several years ago went to court to testify; and, surprisingly considering their history, they spoke up in defense of the FLDS.
The story of Frank Johnson and Art Barlow provides a revealing insight into the FLDS group. It shows the powerful hold Warren Jeffs had over his followers, and that he may still have, even over some former members of the group.
FLDS wives and children have been used for many years as powerful leverage by Warren Jeffs. Husbands he perceived as unrighteous or disloyal faced the constant threat that Jeffs, their prophet, would kick them out and reassign their wives and kids to other families. That's what happened to Art Barlow when he was excommunicated. We asked Barlow if he thought it was an injustice. His reply, "I don't care to comment on that. I just went peacefully in the interest of the children."
The mother of his five children followed the Jeffs faithful to the YFZ ranch, and the kids wound up in state custody.
Frank Johnson had a similar experience. And now, astonishingly, the two former members came to court to testify on behalf of their former wives. "Telling them how I totally trust her. She is a perfect mother. That's where they belong. And that I'd set aside my selfish interest to have them in the best place for the children's interests," Barlow said.
Johnson said, "The best thing for the children is to be with their mother when their mother is a good mother."
If Texas won't allow that, the two Dads want the kids themselves. They admit their belief system must be mystifying to outsiders, but they think Texas has it wrong labeling the YFZ ranch an "abusive environment." "They're attacking a system that is designed to bless the children, not to destroy them," Johnson said.
The raid did prove beneficial to both men in one respect: they got a chance to see their kids last week for the first time in several years."
"If Texas won't allow that, the two Dads want the kids themselves. They admit their belief system must be mystifying to outsiders, but they think Texas has it wrong labeling the YFZ ranch an "abusive environment."
This comment blows me away: "They're attacking a system that is designed to bless the children, not to destroy them," Johnson said."
It’s beginning to sound like a mental illness....
susie
Saw these two brainwashed faithful and useful idiots last night on SLC Channel 5 LDS TV.
The most amazing thing to me is how the newsreaders are oh so sympathetic and “understanding” of the cult. Seems to me they too are serious believers in the prospects of Polygamy.
Poor little Nadine Wimmer and her dreamy eyes bearing silent testimony was a dead give away.
“I just went peacefully in the interest of the children.”
I wonder what that means?
Was Blood Atonement the next step, if they refused to accept being excommunicated?
Bingo!!
Same thing goes for the Utah newspapers. Seems like all of the writers are full of child abuse support.
re: The most amazing thing to me is how the newsreaders are oh so sympathetic and “understanding” of the cult. Seems to me they too are serious believers in the prospects of Polygamy.
Even though the official stand of the LDS church is currently against polygamy, it believes that there will be polygamy in Heaven. So, it shouldn’t be surprising to find a lot of Mormons sympathetic and understanding of the FLDS cult. Good Mormons believe they will spend eternity in polygamous relationships.
You don’t even have to read the newspapers to find sympathetic mormons. Just read the threads HERE.
A couple of interesting entries from the Texas Polygamy website:
4/28/2008 8:08 AM
joroluvsteresa said...
Thank you fttc 7:06. I agree 100% with your post. You also Emily.
I just don’t know how anyone of you people who haven’t lived inside this FLDS society, and been a part of the everyday life there, like I was, can sit there and defend these people when you actually have no idea how they operate. I saw it firsthand. I was there when Warren started ripping families apart. I met with him (Warren) the day he took my dad’s family away from him, and he read me some phony, phsycotic “revelation,” in which he accused my dad of aspiring to the leadership of the church.
I saw when Warren’s dad married Rachel, Warren’s sister, to my dad in 1995, and Wendell Nielsen was so jealous it wasn’t even funny. Everyone knew Wendell wanted her, and guess who she is married to now. Yep, Wendell. You can see pics of her and my brothers and sisters with all of Wendell’s family. Which just happens to be the first time I have seen them in five years.
I have seen and heard young girls get married, and come home crying to their mothers, and the mothers tell them that it is the Lord’s will, and they must go back to the man who forced himself upon them. I SAW IT!!!! Don’t you understand?!!! It broke my heart. That is one of the reasons I left.
I sat in Church and listened as Warren himself got up and told the people that the laws of this country are evil and corrupt, and as such didn’t apply to him or the people. I heard him tell us to pray for certain people to die, and for the Lord to send his destructions down upon this evil world. I personally heard him tell me and my dad to go so far into debt that there was no way we could ever get out, because the end was coming, and we would never have to repay it. Now my dad’s bankrupt, and I can barely keep my head above water.
Yes there are some good people out there, but I know that there are some of the worst people in the world out there too. The kind of people that will take advantage of young girls. The kind of people that will sit down there on their ranches, while all the little grunts out to the Short Creek, and wherever else they are, work their butts off just to send every drop of money they make to these bastard leaders. I was there. I did it myself. So don’t tell me these people deserve our sympathy. They don’t! Like FTTC said, “What goes around comes around.” And I hope justice is served to the full extent of this GREAT countries laws!!!!!!
http://texaspolygamy.blogspot.com/2008/04/what-is-freedom.html
4/23/2008 7:11 PM
joroluvsteresa said...
I have been reading all the responses and everyones outrage at my bitterness and what not. I just want you all to know, I grew up in an awesome place, and I can honestly say I would never change the way I grew up. I was loved and so were all my brothers and sisters. We had a future, something to look forward to. Now my point. These children are living in a totally different world that you or I or anyone can even imagine. They have no future. They are not afforded the same recreation, love, education, social life that we grew up with. Anyone who lived in CC, or Salt Lake in the FLDS religion in the last five to eight years knows that when Warren started taking over, things started changing pretty damn fast. I saw with my own eyes 4 different 14 year old girls that got married, and they didn’t want to get married. Only one of those girls was married to a man under thirty. For any of you who have children, how would you feel if it was your little girls? I saw countless men’s lives ruined overnight for nothing. Just to remove competition. For those of you who live in fairy tale land, and refuse to open your eyes and see the abuses that are happening every day, just be honest with yourselves, and you will see that what I am saying is true.
And if you aren’t outraged at the abuse these women and children have been subjected to, then I feel sorry for your kids and wife
Now for my second point. I have read and heard so many people say they feel so sorry for the parents of these children. I do not feel one bit sorry for the mothers or the fathers of these children. I do feel sorry for the children. They are the innocent victims in this whole thing. But the way that those parents are feeling right now is the exact same way my father, and so many others like him, have felt when Warren ripped his family out from under him. I saw how it devestated him, and it literally just about killed him. You ask, “What right does the state have to take all these children away from these parents?” But I ask, “What right did Warren, Wendell, and Merrill have to take the wives and children of the hundreds and hundreds of men that they removed?” All I am saying is, lets get some stability into these kids lives.
Let them grow up without having two or three different fathers
These are just a few of my opinions. Sorry, but I am not going to back down on this issue. If you don’t have the gumption to stand up for what you believe in, then you will fall for anything.
4/23/2008 9:03 PM
http://texaspolygamy.blogspot.com/2008/04/people-search.html
It is a war.
A war between good and evil. It always has been.
No matter what the case, the subject, the group, the religion, the cult, the issue, the law.
If the law prosecutes those who commit incest, sex with a minor, polygamy, child abuse, then it is done because we have decided those things are wrong. No matter where they happen.
If the law allows the CPS to remove the children, and there was no danger, no laws being broken, then it also is wrong.
The focus that all the ‘objection’ to removing the children rests on, is due to the delay in charges and arrests.
The ‘upside’ to that delay,is that newspaper sales, and website hits are way up.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.