Posted on 05/18/2008 6:41:53 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy
It appears that the state of Texas is characterizing this now as a custody issue also- this is just wierd. I know CPS is under different rules- I knew they could take your children on suspician- but I did not know they could make long term or permanent plans regarding your children without proving that abuse existed. I don’t agree with that, too much power for any agency to deal with. This should scare the tar out of every parent out there.
***Sound of crickets chirping***
Don't you know, it's not the nature of the evidence that counts, it's the seriousness of the charge.
The best way to determine the guilt of these evil cultists is to throw them in the river. If they float then they are guilty, and if they sink, then they were innocent.
The CPS side of the proceedings is nothing more than child custody be it temporary, return to the parents or permanent foster care. Those proceeding operate under the Texas Family Code and Texas Civil Code I believe. The CPS part can take up to 12 months for a resolution with one 6 month extention for a total of 18 months I believe under the Texas statutes.
If any criminal charges come forth such as child rape, abuse, bondage, taxes, fraud, etc all that will come from the DA in the County and procedue un the Texas Penal Code. The Feds may issue criminal charges as they’ve issued a warrant or two I think and Federal Statutes would be involved there.
In other words this entire event will proceed on different fronts with different Statutes and different government agencies involved. Or that is my understanding. Granted I’m not a lawyer, don’t play one on tv so all I’ve surmised or believed to be the case may in fact be in error. We’ll see as this plays out over time.
I’m not getting the comparison to Jews. Are you saying the Jews were a bunch of polygamous child molesters like this bunch of Mormons ?
I DO understand that criminal charges have to come from the DA- I DO understand there is a difference between CPS/children and criminal charges/adults- I posted a big post on that the other day for those that weren’t getting it. What I don’t understand is how CPS can keep children away from parents without abuse being proven. I understand how they can take them- during the investigation- but how can they justify keeping them if no charges are brought by the DA? I don’t understand how long term plans or permanent plans of any sort can be made for these children without proof they were being abused.
Texas claims it has been investigating these people for 4 years- they should have been better prepared to bring charges on adults before the long-term care of the children is being discussed. It doesn’t seem to me that their 4 year investigation yielded them much in the way of solid evidence that abuse was going on at that ranch.
A mess created by perverted child rapists and their brain dead enablers who hide behind convoluted scripture.
Is there a ping list for polygamy apologists?
Texas claims it has been investigating these people for 4 years
Really now?........ I think that was attributed to the Sheriff of the county that he had an informant telling him stuff but a full fledged investigation, I’ve not seen that assertion. I did read where one of the Texas Rangers went with the Sheriff a time or two when he went to the ranch to visit.
But I’ve read nothing that stated the CPS has been investigating these people for four years..... Do you have a link to that?.
Considering issues other states have had with this group, considering what women who have left this group have said, considering that Texas had an informant and investigation going on for four years- I think the way the FLDS members acted should have been expected. I think plans should have been in place to deal with it before a raid was done. It looks to me like Texas went off half-cocked.
I would think they are waiting on DNA results too, except most of the men have not given a DNA sample, and I don’t see how they can force them to give one. I am sure any man that thinks he could possibly be charged for sex with a minor will not willingly give DNA. Texas will not have enough DNA to sort this out if there is no way to force all the men to give a sample.
So what is next? If Texas can’t prove child abuse, as far as I can tell they will have to return the children. If that happens- what was the point of all this? What will it have accomplished?
If Texas manages some way to keep most of these children and not return them- what will keep the group from going back to doing things as they were before?
This is a big mess, and I brought this up early on- but some on here were convinced that Texas had this bunch dead to rights- take the children, lock up the men, as well as some of the women, break up the FLDS in Texas- be heros. It seems it won’t be quite that easy.
Without the federal oversight that crept in during the 70’s this whole problem could have been fixed by TX in one night with some hemp and trees.
I did not say CPS had been investigating for four years.
I was referring to the statement the sheriff made. The day the children were taken the sheriff made it sound like it was not a spur of the moment thing- that it was part of an ongoing investigation over four years and he had an informant. I notice he has not made a statement since- and CPS said the children were taken based on phone call/s and what they observed, as far as I know CPS has not mentioned an ongoing investigation. Maybe the sheriff was trying to be the hero and take credit- who knows? I sure don’t.
You seem to think I can’t seperate CPS from other authorities- I know these entities are seperate- but should be coordinated for something on this scale. Maybe there was no coordination of effort to deal with this- but if that is true, there should have been. When dealing with a group that is this established it would have been smart for all Texas authorities to coordinate efforts- otherwise this may end up being a wasted effort.
CPS has a lot of power- but I don’t see how they alone can stop the practices of this group. At some point abuse has to be proven to keep the children from their parents. At some point criminal charges will have to be made in order to justify this, or keep it from happening again. I also do not see how they can make long term plans for the children until abuse has been established. If they can- then I do NOT agree with it.
At some point abuse has to be proven to keep the children from their parents.
I think that is the process that is ongoing and begins in earnest tomorrow for a few of the children. The CPS has as it’s goal the returning of the children to the parents. To do that they have to work out a service plan acceptable to both and the parents have to agree and fulfill it’s dictations. That is why some parents are saying they’ll move out or leave the ranch if necessary to get their children back. I’m not sure how much abuse has to be proven as opposed to how much potential there is for abuses to exist in the enviornment which the children are living.
Certainly underage girls pregnant or with children indicate potential abusive situations when coupled with the alledged practices of the sect. I don’t know the detailed requirements of the Texas Family Code as to what needs to be proven and how when it comes to child protection. I’ll leave that to the courts and all the lawyers to argue it out. Us keyboard commandos will have mostly nil impact if any on the outcome.
That is for sure! I am glad I am free to consider all the ins and outs and discuss the case- I would not want to have to be making the tough decisions that will have to be made in this case.
I certainly don’t envy any be it the parents, state or attorneys that have the job of sorting this all out. I only hope the can stick to the premise of ‘returning the children to the parents’ as the overall goal. If so maybe things will work out best for all.
I sat on a jury in a child custody case once. Granted it was diffenent than this situation but you are still aware that the child’s needs and upbringing are at stake.
Take care and have a good afternoon.........
They spread the plague, poisoned the wells, and killed Our Lord
Different times, different crimes, same mob mind.
They also agree Louisa Jessop, who gave birth last Monday to her third child, is 22 years old.
OK, I've got a simple question for you. Why should the state retain custody of Mr. and Mrs. Jessop's children? She is 22, her one and only husband is a couple of years older, and they reportedly lived in a separate house at the FLDS community. The state has not alleged any specific abuse related to them, only the risk that results from their membership in FLDS and residency at the community.
Are their unusual religious beliefs alone a sufficient reason to take their children away?
“Is there a ping list for polygamy apologists? “
No, but there is a ping list for apologists for TX law enforcement and CPS officials terrorizing the innocent children and depriving the women of their constitutional rights. There is a ping list for those FReepers but I have been ordered not to ping them. I should think they are easy to find; they are legion. Good luck.
“lock up the men”
I am for that but even those creeps are supposed to have constitutionally protected rights.
A mess? And much more.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.