Guns and Judges: Electing the Supreme Court in 2008 [Must Read!]

Townhall ^ | May 15, 2008 | Sandy Froman, NRA Immediate Past President

[El Gato]

Myself, I have never owned or wanted a gun...BUT, the instant you tell me I cannot legally possess one... I WILL BE OUT THERE SHOPPING FOR A GUN AND AMO!!!! THAT'S A PROMISE!

Don't you think that might be a little late? Purchasing on the black market will make you much more likely to be caught in a "sting" operation.

[El Gato]

we conservatives need to get together somehow and let him know he should pick one of us as a running mate!

Don't hold your breath. It will someone pretty much as "moderate" as he is. Maybe not as much of a "Maverick", but definitely another Socialism Lite, no borders, GloBull warming, guns are icky type.

[El Gato]

McCain has a good rating from the NRA.

Maybe you consider C+, his 2004 rating, good, but my Mama didn't, and doesn't. C+ as a republican is about like a D- or so as a Dem.

[neverdem]

How is that going to work in states, like Texas, where you don't register under a party affiliation? I know lots of folks who normally would have voted in the Republican primary, who instead stood in long lines to vote in the 'Rat primary. Operation Chaos, don't you know. I couldn't bring myself to do it though, since if the 'rat I voted for won the general election, I'd probably not be able to get over it.

Maybe after "Operation Chaos" states will wise up and close their primaries. It's really in the interest of the GOP and conservatives. Especially when their political philosophy is a reactionary "don't rock the boat" style of how are you going to pay for this and what about unintended consequences. How many cockamamie schemes come from the right? It's always the left, by and large, and the RINOs who want to compromise with them.

Congressional Problem Creation

[hiredhand]

My point is; that your vote is one way to affect the outcome of an election. It only makes sense to cast it in a way which causes an effect which benefits YOU. If you would withhold your vote from McCain, with no expectation that doing so will improve Republican candidates in the future, then what would your purpose be?

For me to cast my vote in a way which causes an effect which benefits ME is to fall into the entire "vote selling" scheme which pervades American politics today. For example, each of the candidates promise something that is BEST for me personally. It might be terrible for the country, but it's best for me! The prevailing mentality is that we're supposed to vote this way. They promise everything from free medical care, to lower taxes. We TRADE votes for "stuff".

The entire exercise has become an effort in what we can GET as individuals. It's classic American short term gratification. The sad fact is that if Constitutional Principles were permitted to function as the Founders intended, too many people wouldn't be able to exist within the framework. Too many of them can't stay out of debt and live responsibly, so how would they exist in a true Constitutional society?

I'd like to see a high level political candidate promise to uphold the 2nd Amendment, or the 4th Amendment. I'm not even asking for the entire Bill of Rights, or Constitution. I'm not THAT hopeful! But this cycle of pandering and vote selling has got to stop somewhere. When will that be? I'm not sure, but it certainly won't happen as long as people continue to buy into it.

So I still don't understand your point. All you've really explained to me is the prevailing process of vote selling, and how I'm supposed to vote according to that philosophy.

The problem is that I'm just not there anymore. In fact, a lot of us aren't there anymore, and this scares the hell out of a lot of people. But those people live in a dream world and can't be helped if they won't admit to some basic facts of this situation. At least we're openly admitting that we're in for some very, very bad times and are willing to face it headlong. This is much in contrast to the GOP voter who rolls over and rationalizes that they're going to get raped in a slightly gentler manner by McCain as opposed to Obama or Clinton.

My vote doesn't count for anything really. Neither does yours. You and I and everybody else know this. Because of the electoral college.

My purpose, plain and simple is to do what is RIGHT (a novel thought wouldn't you say?!). My purpose doesn't include the GOP anymore. They abandoned their core support and why people can't see this is truly beyond me.

Now what's your point again?

[JustaDumbBlonde]

"It's morally WRONG to sit out the vote.
It's morally WRONG to vote democrat.
It's morally WRONG to vote RINO."

Actually, I can't agree with that 100 percent. I do believe it is a mistake to sit out the election, but can't go so far as to say it is morally wrong.

As far as voting democrat being immoral ... the presidential candidates are really bad, but there are reasonable people in this world that will vote democrat being totally unaware of some of the nastier aspects of each candidate. Additionally, there are democrats in this part of the country that are far more conservative than many republicans in the NE, a few of them are even fairly acceptable except that I just don't vote for democrats because of what the party (overall) represents.

As for RINOS, my comments would be similar to those on the democrats. McCain is an awful candidate, but I can't go so far as to judge as immoral the act of voting for him. Above my pay grade. Like I've said before ... reasonable people can come to totally differing conclusions about McCain's fitness for office. I'm just not certain that it boils down to a moral decision for everyone.

If I somehow misunderstood your post, please feel free to correct my understanding. ;-)

[Hugin]

"We must accept illegal immigrants to atone for slavery" is pro-enforcement?

Source and date for that quote please. It's 180 degrees from the actual position he ran on, which was build the fence, empower local governments to enforce immigration laws, crack down on employers, and give illegals 120 days to self-deport. Those that did could sign up to immigrate legally, at the bottom of the list. Anyone caught here after that time could never enter the USA legally again.

[hiredhand]

Ah...as far as it being "immoral", that's debatable. :-) You've got a good point in that we really don't KNOW if it's truly immoral or not.

I believe in the "spirit" of what you wrote though. Interestingly, we've got what we call "Southern Democrats" here and they're pretty good people. They're definitely not leftists! One of my kids was trying to explain what they're all about, but I was distracted and didn't catch all of it.

[Hugin]

What really baffles the mind though is the "logic" of the situation. Logic would dictate that the only reasonable choice would be to pencil in a best choice.

Now is it logical to write in someone who cannot win? What would that accomplish? The only logical choice is to vote for the candidate with a chance to win who will do the least damage to the country.

[DuncanWaring]

I can no longer find the specific source for that quote. If you do a web search on Huckabee, slavery and atone you’ll find lots of secondary references to it.

To the best of my recollection, it was about two years ago, currying favor at a LULAC convention in Little Rock.

Before he was running for President.

Earlier this year he said something to the effect of “If you want someone strong on the border, I’m not your guy”.

[hiredhand]

Apply that same logic to three people who are going to burn down your house....albiet using different methods, and different time frames. One might even burn it down over the next several years.

The best of the worst isn't good enough anymore. There are too many of us who think this way and we're all too willing to write-in good candidates and leave the rest to God.

[xJones]

I'm not going to cut my nose to spite my face. McCain is quite lame, but Trotsky or Stalin will be worse.

My nose will stay in place also, even though I'll have to hold it while voting for McCain. As unpalatable as he is, he's still infinitely better than Hitlery or Osama. Even thinking of one of those Democrats as president is ..... actually unthinkable.

[DuncanWaring]

Here ya go.

Wednesday, Dec 6, 2006.

[DuncanWaring]

...the candidate with a chance to win who will do the least damage to the country.

The choices we've got are akin to choices between being shot at close range by a 155mm howitzer, beheaded or being run over by a Caterpiller D9.

[hiredhand]

Ah! Our “friend” the Huckster! :-) I’m glad you found that DW. I was lurking and waiting. :-)

[mountainbunny]

Please let me know what you think.

I think that there will always be an emergency that will have people saying, "But you've gotta vote for the RINO! Abortion/2nd Amendment rights/Welfare/Supreme Court Nominations/etc depend on it!"

There will always be people who will tell us that we have to swallow garbage because they are somehow of the opinion that conservative garbage is better than liberal garbage as long as it is for a good cause, whatever that good cause is.

But there comes a time when we have to realize that the lesser of two evils is still evil and that moral relativism is an insidious mental disease conquered only when one says "no more!" and means it, come what may.

It has to stop somewhere and now is as good a time as any other.

Actually, now is a better time than any other, because the longer we wait to fix what is broken, the harder it will be to fix.

[DuncanWaring]

Took me a while to find it - I remembered the statement being about “slavery”, when the key word was actually “African”.

[Gilbo_3]

If you would withhold your vote from McCain, with no expectation that doing so will improve Republican candidates in the future, then what would your purpose be?

Personally, to rest assured in my heart that I did NOT support the status qou...IE pandering, professional liars whose sole purpose in life is to screw people over for power and money...

'Politics' used to be about serving your country and advancing society, it has become the domain of whores and the pursuit of the darkest human souls...

Having lived in that sub-human spiritual condition [outside of politics] for years and then been given a chance to be a helper rather than my old, selfish POS suit of skin, I detest the very sight of the bitch or the jihadi.

mccain aint AS bad as those two, but he nor 95% of the suits that claim to be my masters wouldnt be trusted to dog-sit, much less welcome into my home or exposed to my children. and Id pass an invitation to theirs as well.

I dont socialize with, tolerate nor support/condone drunks, sinners and general perverts that dont have any desire to 'change' themselves...

William, if your heart tells you that mccain is the best choice and you can live with that, I can respect that and say God bless ya dude, but please give us the same courtesy, we are not trying to hurt anything, just trying to be honest with our conscience... LFOD...

[William Tell]

hiredhand said: "All you've really explained to me is the prevailing process of vote selling, and how I'm supposed to vote according to that philosophy."

It certainly doesn't benefit me to bequeath to my grandchildren a nation in ruins due to socialism. You mistake my meaning when I refer to how your vote benefits YOU.

Assuming the Heller decision comes out 5-4 in favor of an individual right to keep and bear arms, then I will KNOW that my votes for Bush and against Gore and Kerry benefitted me greatly.

I'm waiting to hear how your morality is going to benefit you when you withhold your vote for McCain and permit Hillary or Obama to take office.

I refused to vote for Arnold because he is a RINO. I remain convinced that Kalifornia would have been better off dealing with bankruptcy under a Democrat rather than bankruptcy under Arnold.

Is there some way in which the nation will be a better place because Obama or Hillary take office rather than McCain?

[Gilbo_3]

"It's morally WRONG to sit out the vote. It's morally WRONG to vote democrat. It's morally WRONG to vote RINO."

when I read that, it can come on a little strong,

I read it more as 'morally wrong to vote for dem [rino] that has proven to me to go against my moral beliefs'...

or any other area of life, I no longer buy 'hot' car stereos for example...I wont support that theif either...