Posted on 05/05/2008 6:44:40 AM PDT by MizSterious
Brother Joe would be proud...
These FLDS family members want their children back.
However, they won’t give their names, or use aliases.
They admit they have multiple wives, but won’t name them.
They change their stories constantly.
They won’t (men) give their DNA to the State for testing.
They don’t believe they are doing anything wrong.
They have been raised their whole life on that belief.
They have been taught that the ‘outsiders’ will come after them and they must lie to the ‘outsiders’ to protect themselves.
They are repeatedly told the end of the world is coming (the PROPHET’S GREAT PREDICTIONS), and that they must hold out until it happens.
Each time it doesn’t happen, Jeffs makes a new prediction.
And they wonder why their children aren’t being returned.
If Warren Jeffs decides he doesn’t like you, your wives and children are taken away, and you fall into the not enough wives category. How convenient.
They probably want to ascertain how she got into the US. I think a lot of these cross-border movements of people by the FLDS are of the sneaking across the border variety, not the presenting ID at a border crossing variety. Even if they let the girl go back to Canada (which I expect they will if the Canadian consul requests it), they still need to gather evidence about the cult leaders’ methods of transporting people across national borders.
The doctrine isn’t that men get booted out of the community for having fewer than 3 wives, it’s that neither they nor their wife/wives can enter into the “celestial kingdom”, the highest level of Heaven. Doctrine also requires striving towards reaching the celestial kingdom, so any man who doesn’t have 3+ wives must be striving to acquire more. Announcing he doesn’t want anymore would be heretical, and would probably get him kicked out and his wife/wives and children “reassigned”.
“The doctrine isn’t that men get booted out of the community for having fewer than 3 wives, it’s that neither they nor their wife/wives can enter into the “celestial kingdom”, the highest level of Heaven.”
Logically, one would assume that each young man (which would seem to be limited to Warren Jeffs progeny) has a first marriage. Until that man gets told by JEFFS who he will marry next, he is, at that point, monogamous.
We all have discussed the women and children who are given no choice, but it is also important to remember that none or very, very few of the men are given a choice whom they marry either.
The only ‘choice’ the men have, is that by kissing JEFFS *ss, they might be favored with a ‘good female’, and the ‘pick of the litter’.
They sound a lot like Crystal Gail Mangum, From the Duke lacrosse hoax.
In keeping my consistant position, I think this child should be returned to her parents in Canada, unless they have specific evidence that her parents have abused her in some way.
The Bishop’s record is an interesting read.
Some are listed as ‘wife’, some are listed as ‘spouse’.
Wonder what the difference is, to them?
Also the ‘location’ is listed as ‘elsewhere’.
Gee, that pins it down.
BTW, Thank you for doing the lookup work.
Your efforts are appreciated.
Whoa. They never showed the kids were abused. The first hearing was a pass-over because they didn't have time to do it right. Now they are arguing that they don't need to do a real hearing because they already did it?
And now they are arguing that, contrary to what a lot of people have said here, the reason the kids were taken was because of the beliefs of their parents, and not because of their actions?
So, if I believe something that would be illegal if practiced, the state can take my children? If I write a column that marijuana should be legal, the state can say I am pro-drugs and take my kids because I'm a threat?
No. In fact, the argument most have made here at FR is that it isn't what they believe, it's that they were practicing what they believed.
And those of us on the other side have said we don't see sufficient evidence that EACH family got a fair hearing to dispute whether they had practiced anything untoward.
And those against us say that the state IS giving people a fair hearing -- but now this article says they aren't getting a hearing at all.
Instead, the next hearings are about the children and foster care, not about the families and whether there was any evidence of abuse.
At some point, I hope that even those who are certain every parent is guilty will realise that the state still has to actually provide evidence in court that each parent is guilty before we take their kids away for good.
You are assuming they ‘sent’ her, instead of her being a ‘pick of the litter’ by the LOYAL INNER CIRCLE.
They might be telling the truth, since we have seen ‘consistent’(sp) proof that the FLDS folks don’t lie.
“that each parent is guilty before we take their kids away for good. “
The children are in ‘temporary custody’.
You should at least get your facts straight.
When will she be 18?
Hopefully this is just paranoia. It would be a shame to think the state would use their investigative powers to silence anybody who is critical about what they are doing.
Texas Child Protective Services initially pledged it would keep siblings together, but later acknowledged that has not happened in every case. The eight Barlow children are in five different locations, ranging from Cal Farley's in Amarillo to Kidz Harbor in Liverpool. While Vera and Viola are at the Baptist children's ranch in Gonzales, Lola is an hour away at Boysville in San Antonio.
The state said that to get some of the critics off their back. Apparently they had no interest in keeping their word, and no need to do so legally.
"Lydia, Edward and Lola are each alone, without a sibling to comfort them," Barlow said.
The couple said they gave the state accurate names and birth dates for all of their children. And later they submitted DNA samples.
I know, we can't believe a word these evil people say -- but do we have any evidence from the state that this is a lie?
In the absense of any other evidence, this is an example of a family, together, which was not practicing any of the horrors mentioned, where the mothers were all 18, and where the children are NOT being married off, and won't be. One where the family does not BELIEVE in underage marriages.
They do believe in men having sex with other adult women than their wives. That is not generally considered child sex abuse, and is not normally a reason to take a person's kids away.
I suppose you could argue that teaching your children that they can have sex outside of a single-woman marriage is child abuse, but then we'd have to round up the kids of most planned parenthood members.
maybe they didn’t live at the ranch, and were not taken away. Maybe he didn’t want to give any more information lest that situation change.
Or maybe he’s a typical pig male who doesn’t mind sleeping with other women and not taking part in their lives or the lives of his children.
“One where the family does not BELIEVE in underage marriages.”
Well, according to the statements given to the CPS, NONE of the FLDS members believe, or practice underage marriage.
So, I guess we should just let them all go.
Not that there aren’t a few families who are telling the truth, maybe.
The only ‘truth’ the courts have at their disposal is DNA tests, and those aren’t complete.
Surely, if these people have nothing to hide, then all the MEN would come forward and offer their DNA.
It is, after all, for the children.
“They never showed the kids were abused. “
Who didn’t show the kids were abused, and to whom?
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