Posted on 04/17/2008 6:55:49 PM PDT by claudiustg
This has been addressed so many times by so many posters that it's getting to be a game. The information discovered by the first visit to the ranch (or whatever) was used to form the basis for the second visit.
I don’t think the mental capacity issue has anything to do with inbreeding. The inbreeding-related defect that is common in this group is fumarase deficiency which results in profound retardation, with mental function never progressing beyond the early infancy level. The sufferers of this genetic defect aren’t doing anything at all within the cult. They can’t walk or talk or anything else.
The mental capacity issue has to do with the lifelong brainwashing, starting with extreme physical abuse in infancy, and continuing throughout their lives. They have normal IQs, but much like war veterans suffering PTSD, their mental function has been drastically altered by psychological trauma, to the point where they are unable to think rationally or respond normally to witnessing things like a child being beaten for no reason. They lack the capacity to resist or challenge abuse of themselves or others.
Absolutely it is a possibility and it is very consistent with the facts that are emerging.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2003515/posts?page=72#72
Friday, April 18, 2008 1:12:28 PM • 72 of 94
lady lawyer to TLI
It was Dale Barlow’s lawyer on Greta Van Susteren’s show a few nights ago. He said that Barlow’s continued presence in Arizona had been corroborated by numerous people, including Barlow’s parole/probation officer. Barlow can’t leave the state, and the person monitoring him said he has been 100 percent compliant. The lawyer also said that Texas knew all this before they went into the compound.
If the LEO's knew they were putting the wrong name on the arrest warrant they have no "good faith" argument to justify retaining evidence gathered from it or basing the second warrant on it. And if the second warrant bounces they could be in some very deep doo-doo.
I just got back from errands and have not checked to see if there is any available video of the show.
OK. I misunderstood about the fumarase deficiency.
I agree. And those above a certain age, whatever that is, will never be able to recover what is lost. The younger they are, the more hope their is for them.
Many of the kids are going to start having issues, though, as the anger that has been buried for so long is finally going to be able to be expressed.
No, sorry, if they found evidence on the first visit, it doesn't matter about the hoax call. As others have stated here, if your wife calls the police for a prowler, and they find evidence that you are raising pot in the basement or abusing your children, during the prowler investigation, they can act on what they see with their own eyes.
Which is exactly what happened.
Warren Jeffs went on a rant about black people being uncouth and all sorts of stuff, you can find it on the web, so no, there are no back people in the FLDS.
This isn't just based on one phone call. You have to be blind and pay no attention to news not to know that there was controversy with the FLDS and child brides.
Warren Jeffs was convicted for accessory to rape (personally I don't think he was charged right in that case), it has been all over the news ever since he was put on the FBI most wanted list.
I have seen Carolyn and Flora Jessop on different TV shows many times over the last few years. They lived in that church. They know. Of course some would say they are just disgruntled former members but I believe them. Carolyn more than Flora.
Go to the El Dorado local newspaper and look at their archives about the FLDS. They were watching these people ever since they lied about what they were going to do with the land.
So it wasn't just one phone call. It was a combination of many things that culminated with the phone call.
Even if the original call came from CO, it really doesn't matter in they eyes of the law.
It could well be the woman in CO started this. That isn't even much of a factor now. It will be for her, she faces charges but for the FLDS case it won't matter.
I do not hate Mormons. FR allows religious discussions and if you can't take being offended, stay away from them.
My issue is the religion of Mormonism. Not the people. They tend to be very nice and good people. Now if you want to think I hate all Mormons, you are free to think that.
That is not even close to what I am talking about. If the State of Texas LEO's knew, as the lawyer for Dale stated on national TV, that those very same LEO's knew that Dale Barlow had nothing to do with the situation, knew he was not there, then that is falsifying information to obtained a warrant. It would be a defense attorneys wet dream.
It has nothing to do with the calls. It would be information gathered directly from Arizona authorities by their own efforts.
It’s Texas, not Arizona.
The initial LEO response was mandated.
The evidence seen on the first visit was used to make the subsequent warrant, NO information was falsified. The subsequent warrant resulted in the removal of the children for their safety.
There were other problems discovered during the serving of the warrant that have led to the fLDS landing in hot water: no birth certificates, no reliable identification of which child belongs with which mother, no fathers stepping forward to say, “This is my family,” welfare abuse, etc.
All this will be sorted out. No LEOs are in trouble, and the warrants are valid. There is now going to be mandated DNA testing. The FACTS will come out.
I give up, you are simply not worth the time.
I hope Texas CPS authorities will be creative in crafting a solution for these kids and any of the mothers who are willing to try to rejoin the outside world. Tossing all these kids into regular homes and regular schools, even if sibling groups are kept together to the extent possible, would likely be a disaster. Something like taking over (or building) a garden apartment complex big enough to house all the women and children, as well as a large number of live-in counselors, and a school. These people need to adjust gradually, and with close supervision and a lot of help. I can’t see any existing programs or facilities being a good solution.
What's the matter? Didn't I "keep sweet"?
There is a good faith requirement. If the LEO's knowingly presented the judge with false info the good faith requirement is not met and the evidence is disallowed.
The lawyer for Dale Barlow is alleging the LEO’s knew he was not there and never was. The lawyer is stating the Texas LEO’s knew this PRIOR to the first warrant
The Arizona authorities are backing up Barlows’s story. And if Barlow is telling the truth, his lawyer is probably telling the truth, which means there is a possibility the Texas LEO’s went to the judge for the first warrant and presented info they knew was false.
I’m outta here, I rented 28 weeks and it is still in the box, not the player.
Sorry, you folks defedning this evil are just disgusting. No one hates that which is so disgusting as to be unworthy of the energy required to hate. But thgat is a nice fool’s try there, dude/dudette, and your little dogs too, pana.
I suspect you may be correct in your analysis of the warrant situation.
I, for one, am disgusted with the blatant misuse of my hard earned taxpayer dollars by an out of control, bureaucratic, jackbooted agency (CPS). If anyone should have the misfortune of getting entangled with this bunch of Femi-Nazi’s and are lucky enough to come out relatively unscathed, consider yourself very fortunate as well as educated on the true nature of CPS.
CPS should be required to read you your Miranda Rights upon first contact as they can and will use anything you say as well as anything they see against you in a court of law. This does not include the addition of any embellishments that WILL be added along the way. Even though they claim to be on your side, that is the furthest from the truth. It must never be forgotten that they are there to gather evidence to use against you in a court of law and that in their eyes (The State of Texas) you are guilty until proven innocent.
Furthermore, it should be noted that the majority of caseworkers simply have an Associates Degree with not only the absence of practical real-world experience with children but no children at all! As far as removing children from their homes in the middle of the night, that is simply par for the course for CPS. Typically and especially if they know they will be removing children, they will show up either in the late afternoon or evening, usually on a Thursday or Friday, depending on the number of children involved. This, of course, will foil any attempt by the parent(s) to become reunited with their offspring before the weekend, giving CPS unfettered access to do their deeds.
Moreover, Lord forbid that CPS should approach their target at a reasonable hour or for that matter remove the root cause of the problem (in this case the men). DUH!! If this whole fiasco was truly “for the children” as is claimed, then they along with the women should have been left at the ranch. Logistically speaking, removing and housing what, 20-40 men would be preferable than 400+ children/women.
My hard-earned taxpayer dollars at work yet again.
In closing, I would venture to say that this is probably the single largest instance of civil rights violations I have witnessed in this country since the Branch Davidian fiasco.
Yes.
Have you?
You first.
Something that damages society.
The child protective service people merely took the kids into custody, and no arrests were made of anyone.
This is a civil action, not a criminal action.
Besides, it's not like taking a child into custody is a matter like seizing your property ~ you, yourself only have "custody rights" to your kids. They are not property.
At the same time there's some serious doubt that these children were in their parents' custody anyway. Sure, they were there at the camp, and there were women at the camp, and some men, but who are the parents. Enough of the adults equivocated or mis-identified regarding identification questions to create a presumption that these kids may not be the children of the camp adults.
Yep...
Civil action indeed! Let us gather all our evidence, after a BOGUS initial warrant...Hmmmm... What’s that smell!!!
Child Protective Services.. oxymoron anyone?? .. the abuse of innocence continues unabated by our own illustrious, all-knowing state agency. My oh my, do I see a national pattern developing before my very eyes??
On the subject of DNA, under what circumstances must an individual(s) be compelled to give a sample? What’s that sound? Is it a stampede of ACLU attorneys? Nope, just chirping crickets!
Seems like there was a time, in the not too distant past, that we as parents did a mighty fine job of raising our children without the Nanny state showing us the way.. so to speak.
Must be some more of that “change” we’re all supposed to be looking forward to in ‘08.. Eh!
Fine pickle this one.. I would certainly hope that those in charge of this excellent example of civility are readily forthcoming with credible answers to the taxpayers of this great state as this IS going to cost a pretty penny for many years to come... One thing is for sure, I won’t be holding my breath!
Even though this is still the greatest nation on the planet, domestically speaking, we are incrementally losing ground on a regular basis and treading the path of least resistance.. Our doom indeed!
Something comes to mind while pondering this shameful and politically motivated morass; it has something to do with monkeys and footballs!
Then again, I’m probably just being bitter while holding onto my gun and Bible ;*)
You'd have all the moms and dads from the F(lds) across the street anxiously awaiting their release, and then the 20 13 year old pregnant girls break loose from the pack and rush to embrace their husbands.
Right ~ bring it on guys.
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