Posted on 03/21/2008 5:39:05 AM PDT by metmom
That's it in a nutshell, isn't it. I believe in sexual morality too, but I just don't believe that sexual morality is the only morality. I'm consistently pro-life. I embrace the sinner you hope will die.
What are your sources? Where are you getting the numbers? How do you know they're accurate?
Ok, I'll answer each of those.
1. How many people have HIV/AIDS.By definition this has to be a fairly rough estimate, with numbers differing depending on the source, because HIV tests are expensive and most people with HIV don't know they're infected. I cited a 40 million figure, which was what a 2006 study suggested. In looking into your question, I discovered that the latest research (The 2007 AIDS Epidemic Update published December, 2007) jointly by UNAIDS and the World Health Organization estimated that 33.2 million people worldwide are HIV+. The Update is the closets thing we have to an authoritative source, and its figures are used and cited by the White House, the CDC, the NIH, etc. Source. The same study breaks down HIV/AIDS cases by region and country -- of those 33.2 million, 15.4 million are women, and 2.5 million are children under the age of 15. The study found that AIDS is the leading cause of death in sub-Saharan Africa.
how many deaths that have orphaned children.
The same study estimated that there are between 10.5 and 14.6 million children in sub-Saharan Africa who have been orphaned by AIDS.
The study is a compendium of a bunch of other studies, all of which are cited in the report.
Fixed.
I cannot believe that you are seriously equivocating the common cold with HIV/AIDS. Obviously you have some personal stake in this, and I don't care what it is, but the fact remains that people seldom die from the complications of a typical cold.
And if you want to compare dollar-cost and dollars spent, consider this: more people die EACH year from heart disease than the total number who have died in the last DECADE from HIV/AIDS. Yet research spending on HIV/AIDS exceeds spending on heart disease by MILLIONS annually.
As far as cost to society, compare the cost of missing a few days of productivity due to a cold, to missing 10, 20, 35 years or more of productivity due to dying young of complications from HIV/AIDS (not to mention the lost tax revenue).
Here's another thought: if it's "ok" to tax cigarettes and (soon) fast-food because of the health costs to society, why not tax sexually active homosexuals for the same reason? Especially since HIV/AIDS activists are complicit in preventing the eradication of HIV/AIDS?
Yes, it's true. Activists successfully lobbied to have no disclosure of HIV/AIDS-positive patients...even among medical professionals treating the patients! That means that a nurse treating an HIV-pos patient for, say, a broken arm, is forbidden by law to tell the nurse who comes on duty to relieve her that the patient is HIV-pos! So which is worse: one patient stigmatized for being HIV-pos, or several medical professionals at a higher risk of getting infected because they were not informed?
Finally, I have a very dear friend who has advanced Parkinson's disease. It will absolutely break my heart when (not IF) he finally succumbs to the disease. Embryonic stem-cell advocates often cite a cure for Parkinson's as a justification for the willful murder of nascent human beings. Yet I am still opposed to embryonic stem-cell research, even if it could cure my friend. Just because the issue strikes very close to me doesn't mean that I abandon my principles. I gently suggest that you take a look at the "bigger picture" as far as HIV/AIDS is concerned.
Only in the sense that both are preventable. The differences are obvious.
Obviously you have some personal stake in this
No, not really.
more people die EACH year from heart disease than the total number who have died in the last DECADE from HIV/AIDS
Wow, that's a total fabrication. You couldn't be more wrong. Roughly 4.5 million people die each year from heart disease, according to the WHO. AIDS kills roughly 3 million people per year. Why do you make up this crap? Do you really expect to get away with making stuff up out of whole cloth?
Of course like HIV/AIDS, heart disease is also a largely preventable condition, dependent on lifestyle choices including diet and exercise.
So, we have a “rough estimate” from “latest research” by UNAIDS (UN—aren’t these the same people who brought us the Oil for Food Scandal, Kofi Annan, et al?) and WHO—aren’t these the same people who were kicked out of Angola during a Marburg outbreak for insulting locals?—
I wouldn’t believe the UN or WHO on AIDS, Bird Flu malaria, genocide, or anything else. They are at the mercy of local thugs who tell them what they want to hear. Anyone who gives them any credibility is certainly free to do so...but there’s a reason for the slogan: Get the US out of the UN, and get the UN out of the US.
The same studies cited above state that 800,000 children die annually in Africa from malaria. The UN is currently reviewing bringing back DDT to help alleviate the scourge, which would have been all but eliminated if the UN hadn’t BANNED DDT. People this stupid shouldn’t get US taxpayer dollars to do anything about HIV/AIDS, they’ll only dribble it away, spend it on bribes, buy local armies, and degrade the continent further. Moslems and Chinese are moving into Africa at a huge rate...I bet they’d like to get their hands on some US taxpayer “research and treatment” millions.....I wonder how they’d use it? No doubt in very generous and benevolent ways. /sarc
All the numbers are completely unreliable. Between 10 and 14 million children orphaned by HIV? Since 1981? Which is it? 4 million is quite a bit of leeway, just doesn’t inspire confidence in the accuracy, now, does it?
I say, let Africa wait on US aid dollars until there’s a vaccine. Or let the Chinese develop one. Or the Moslems, those historical medical geniuses. They have plenty of petrodollars and trade imbalance dollars—if they care, and are humane, let the Chinese and Moslems fix it.
Wait, now, AK, it's you, lying again. 4.5 million die each year from heart disease WHERE? The US? okay...
AIDS kills roughly 3 million people each year WHERE? The world? Because 3 million aren't dying every year in the US from HIV.
So you're comparing heart disease deaths in the US with HIV deaths in the WORLD?
YOU are the one making things up out of whole cloth. As you have done throughout this entire thread.
Yes, there was. Because as AK says above, the tests are sooooo expensive, they just call it AIDS, no matter what it is.
And, the reason is they get political support for HIV, which translates to western dollars for local thugs.
And ladies and gentlemen, this is why people believe conservatives are morons. Let's simply ignore the people, like children, who contract HIV infections without any sort of immorality on their parts. Hey let's let them die because stupid conservatives think you can only get HIV from receptive anal sex.
Failure to change behavior is the ONLY thing holding back progress in the fight against AIDS.
***************
Exactly. Where's the incentive to report accurate numbers?
I'd be fine if we took care of the children and airlifted the rest to some island out in the Pacific to die.
And this is why people think liberals are morons because they make blanket statements about conservatives and fabricate fairy tales about how they think.
What’s the matter? Slow day over at DU?
Even supposing those numbers are accurate, and unless there’s a medical diagnosis by a trained medical professional in each and every case of suspected AIDS death worldwide, how does “Some 39.4 million people in the world live with HIV.” translate into 40 million CHILDREN in AFRICA with AIDS/HIV?
Tell me it ain't so. They would really do that? Imagine that.
The statistics I cited were slightly out of date. Worlwide, according to WHO estimates, about 7 million people died of heart disease in 2002, the last year for which data is available. Source
The WHO estimates that 1.9-2.4 million people died of HIV/AIDS in 2007. Source.
Both are worlwide figures. Both are from official WHO estimates.The statistics show that AIDS deaths have declined each year since 2005, but any way you slice it, Ignatz's claim was way off.
No, not a scandal. However, in 2007 UNAIDS redid the way it calculated global AIDS numbers adopting a more conservative approach. The new 2007 numbers -- which use the new calculation method and which I have been citing exclusively -- have resulted in a 16% down adjustment in the number of cases estimated.
The problem is that estimating HIV cases, when most people with HIV don't know they're infected, is awfully difficult eveb in developed countries like the United States. In parts of the third world, it can be more difficult.
Huh? Did I claim that there were 40 million children in Africa with HIV/AIDS? Cite?
Well let me just suggest that you get your ducks in a row before you go slamming other people for inaccurate figures. And I think your 7 million worldwide is waaaaaaaaay off.
I just don’t believe it.
Check the CDC figures for US deaths from heart disease, in, say 2004 or 5, and HIV deaths in the US for the same year. I’m betting you’ll get Ignatz’ 10 to 1 figure.
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