Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Boeing to challenge U.S. Air Force tanker decision
Reuters ^ | Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:46pm EDT | John Crawley and Mark McSherry

Posted on 03/10/2008 4:07:45 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-72 next last
To: Timeout
One, I don't assume Boeing to go on losing. Two, I don't like American strategic military assets to come from foreign companies. And yes, I consider a tanker to be a strategic asset.

Further, this replacement should have been in the works by the late eighties. And certainly after the first Gulf War. But it's not a sexy platform like an F-22. And having it in the works then would have allowed competition from American sources like Lockheed and MD. Defense company consolidation has its downsides, and this is one of them.

And one more thing. At least Boeing has a lot of experience in building and maintaining tanker aircraft. This is a first ever for Airbus. Let other foreign countries pay for their growing pains.

Put this contract up for re bid. Boeing can add the triple seven to the mix if in fact the AF likes the bigger footprint. From a graphic I saw on another thread, the 777 beats the A330 in the larger AC metrics. BTW: while not as large as the A330, the 767 was cheaper. But hey, since you're paying for it, and you want to go with the bigger bird; why not buy American!

41 posted on 03/10/2008 5:26:18 PM PDT by AFreeBird
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Yo-Yo
If Boeing had more time, and if they thought it was that important,

If you sit on your butt for two years after you start losing perhaps you should start thinking it important.

42 posted on 03/10/2008 5:27:40 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Never say yer sorry, mister. It's a sign of weakness)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: norton

That’s why I want to hear from the oversight board. Nothing personal, but some here seem to be presenting one side of the issue. I want to hear both sides on the technical merits. (I’m not persuaded by the American jobs argument, nor by the military secrets issue.)

Fox said Murtha’s starting his hearings tomorrow. Will the oversight board members make public testimony?


43 posted on 03/10/2008 5:28:03 PM PDT by Timeout
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Timeout
Here's the graphic I mentioned.


44 posted on 03/10/2008 5:30:12 PM PDT by AFreeBird
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: AFreeBird
At least Boeing has a lot of experience in building and maintaining tanker aircraft.

Not this century

This is a first ever for Airbus. Let other foreign countries pay for their growing pains.

Actually we are.

45 posted on 03/10/2008 5:31:02 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Never say yer sorry, mister. It's a sign of weakness)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: pissant

His stepping in during the last tanker fiasco saved the taxpayer one helluva lot. His concern about FCS is well founded as well


46 posted on 03/10/2008 5:31:56 PM PDT by Starwolf (I rode to work today, did you?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: pissant

His stepping in during the last tanker fiasco saved the taxpayer one helluva lot. His concern about FCS is well founded as well


47 posted on 03/10/2008 5:31:57 PM PDT by Starwolf (I rode to work today, did you?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Paleo Conservative
I am actually surprised they are going to protest.

This will delay the start of the program for at least one year. The Air Force and Pentagon are going to remember this for a long time.

48 posted on 03/10/2008 5:32:23 PM PDT by SkyPilot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Oztrich Boy
If you sit on your butt for two years after you start losing perhaps you should start thinking it important.

Very true. The KC-767 lost in head to head competition with the KC-330 MRTT in the UK, Australia, UAE, and Saudi Arabia.

Japan already operates an AWACS version of the 767, so their selection of the KC-767 is understandable.

49 posted on 03/10/2008 5:33:18 PM PDT by Yo-Yo (USAF, TAC, 12th AF, 366 TFW, 366 MG, 366 CRS, Mtn Home AFB, 1978-81)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Starwolf

His attempted “peace dividend” military cuts and missile defense freeze in the 1990s were the height of stupidity. He’s a chump.


50 posted on 03/10/2008 5:36:12 PM PDT by pissant (THE Conservative party: www.falconparty.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: AFreeBird

There’s one thing that helps Northrop Grumman: the A330 is a well-tried, pretty reliable design that has been proven in service since the early 1990’s. As such, this means the KC-45 final design has a proven track record of reliable operation and the plane could be a candidate for a modified version of the GEnx engine in the KC-45/A330-200F version.


51 posted on 03/10/2008 5:36:42 PM PDT by RayChuang88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: AFreeBird

NGC claimed over 50% domestic, and Boeing was not 100% domestic. There is more than just the airfame in the tanker “System”


52 posted on 03/10/2008 5:37:09 PM PDT by Starwolf (I rode to work today, did you?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Oztrich Boy
They're selling that bird to other countries (and were before their junior partner (NG) came into the picture.. Check out EADS website.

And while they [Boeing] haven't built any tankers this century, all eight years of it, they have a hell of a lot more experience than Airbus does. That should actually count for something.

And that means, I don't want to pay a foreign competitor to debug their first ever design for a military asset when we have a home grown company with over 50 years of experience.

53 posted on 03/10/2008 5:38:06 PM PDT by AFreeBird
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Yo-Yo
If Boeing had more time, and if they thought it was that important, they could have come up with a 767-400 derivative with uprated engines from the civilian -400 for short field performance.

The 400 has worse field perfromance compared to the other models. It uses the same engines as the 767-300ER, so it's a little under powered. I can't see why the proposed modifications would have been that dificult to implement. The cockpit has been used for years by Delta and Contintental. Boeing didn't put it in 200 or 300 models, because they didn't want to go to the expense of certifying it. What it really needed was a better wing with a higher aspect ratio like the A330 wing. The 767-400ER was built with a wingspan designed to fit into the same gates that the L-1011 and DC-10 could use, because Delta wanted to use it as a 1:1 replacement for those planes in its domestic network. If it had been built with longer wings, it would have had better runway performance and range.

54 posted on 03/10/2008 5:38:12 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: SkyPilot
I am actually surprised they are going to protest.

This will delay the start of the program for at least one year.

That's all it will take.

Betting on Obama. They Hope he will Change the decision.

55 posted on 03/10/2008 5:39:44 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Never say yer sorry, mister. It's a sign of weakness)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: AFreeBird

Exactly right.

Let’s reverse this scenario and make it aircraft carriers instead of tankers and see how NG likes it.

Obviously Boeing is competitive globally in commercial airplanes with 45-55% of the market (depending on how you measure it).

I don’t think U.S. ship building is competitive around the world. Do we build cruise ships? But we still think it is important to be able to build navy ships.

What if Boeing went to a Korean shipbuilder and had them build the hull and super-structure of a carrier. Then Boeing could tow it here and could stuff it with all the electronics and systems and get it to 51% U.S. content by dollar value.

How would that sit with folks around the shipyards? Subs next?

I can’t believe so many Freepers don’t see the strategic value. Not to mention that putting those dollars right back into the home economy spins around and makes more jobs, pays taxes etc. Those Euroweenie jobs won’t do that.


56 posted on 03/10/2008 5:58:41 PM PDT by djwright (I know who's my daddy, do you?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: pissant

Ok - based on the information available at this point - what part makes you think it was rigged (and I am not saying you are right or wrong - just curious what you base your opinion on).


57 posted on 03/10/2008 8:38:48 PM PDT by TheBattman (LORD God, please give us a Christian Patriot with a backbone for President in 08, Amen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: TheBattman

Because they had to change the RFP criteria, mid bid, to keep NG/Eads from dropping out.


58 posted on 03/10/2008 8:42:10 PM PDT by pissant (THE Conservative party: www.falconparty.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: pissant

Unfortunately (regardless of if the post is factual or not), this posting sounds just as biased as the pro-Northrup postings and releases.


59 posted on 03/10/2008 8:42:25 PM PDT by TheBattman (LORD God, please give us a Christian Patriot with a backbone for President in 08, Amen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: TheBattman

It only matters if it is true.


60 posted on 03/10/2008 8:44:04 PM PDT by pissant (THE Conservative party: www.falconparty.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-72 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson