Posted on 03/07/2008 4:40:38 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
Douglas Adams knows already, one way or the other. We won’t worry about him anymore.
Thought by whom?
You won’t accept anything else to prove the spiritual.
Science isn’t allowed to do it because the supernatural is allegedly outside the realm of science.
Anytime someone tries to philosophize about it, they’re told it’s not *logical*.
Miracles don’t count either because you can’t tell what the source is.
Personal experience is discredited because it’s too subjective.
There is nothing that a good atheist will accept as proof of the supernatural because they have decreed beforehand that nothing is capable of proving the supernatural, so they reject everything out of hand before the discussion starts.
I honestly don’t see how that’s any different than scientists looking at the fossil record and deciding upon an explanation for it (ToE) and then declaring that every fossil they henceforth find supports their theory. Of course it would because they have already decided that it would a priori.
Nothing "alleged" about it.
I assume you chose your screen name because of some background in the sciences, particularly in weather.
That would imply that you took Science 101 where you were taught about the Scientific Method.
It doesn't allow for miracles to explain what is re-creatable. Mix vinegar and baking soda, and the resulting reaction can't be described as a miracle.
Science doesn't even take a position on whether miracles can occur, but if they do, they're outside the scientific method, and certainly not offered up as an explanation for something yet to be explained.
Supernatural means something outside of natural processes. So, yes, it's outside the realm of science.
The only problem with your analysis is that I’m not an atheist.
I have a problem with the way some mortals have described Him, or recounted actions attributed to Him, but I do believe in God.
I question the actions attributed to Him, because first, I’m not sure they happened. The Books of Moses, upon which much of the discussion is based, probably weren’t written by Moses, but by a variety of authors. In any event, it’s a pretty nifty trick to write about your own death and beyond.
Secondly, if you or others wish to call me an atheist for what I’ve asked, it doesn’t hurt my feelings. You’re wrong, so I view anything else you write knowing that you got the basics wrong.
I guess I do regret even posting on this thread, because it certainly hasn’t been helpful. I learned that neanderthals were half angels, but that’s about it.
[[Thought by whom?]]
thoughtful people
[[*sigh* You do know that using the Bible to prove the Bible is the spiritual equivalent of saying ‘I found it on the Internet, it must be true’, don’t you?]
The internet doesn’t have 0ver 600 prophesies that came 100% true- the bible is more solid and certain and trustworthy than your proposed outcoem I’m afraid.
Okay, got it.
Thoughtful people think that Neanderthal Man was half angel.
This doesn’t speak well of angels, does it?
Or thoughtful people, for that matter.
[[In any event, it’s a pretty nifty trick to write about your own death and beyond.]]
Not hard when you have divine revelation
[[Secondly, if you or others wish to call me an atheist]]
Noone htinks that- irreverent agnostic- sure- atheist? No.
[[ I learned that neanderthals were half angels, but that’s about it.]]
No- you learned that some poeple think that- nothign more- also you learned that there were giant’s bones in display during hte time og Josephus, and had you looked into the situation more, you’da learned that during that time many people had personal testimonies of having met giants who were nehpilim
If you have a link to where Neanderthal giants have been found, I’d appreciate it.
Heck, I’d take a link to where Josephus visited the traveling circus to see them.
I’d really like to see the fossils of half-angels.
You have no concept of what I would accept.
I honestly don’t see how that’s any different than scientists looking at the fossil record and deciding upon an explanation for it (ToE) and then declaring that every fossil they henceforth find supports their theory. Of course it would because they have already decided that it would a priori.
Scientists of the day tried very hard to fit the rock and bone evidence into the Biblical frame. Ultimately, they reluctantly had to let the evidence of the rocks in their hands supplant the rock of their faith.
I suspect that if science is faithful to its methods, it and religion will converge on a better understanding of our place in the universe.
Don't be afraid...
I find ‘the Bible predicted this, and it happened’ much more compelling than ‘the Bible proves the Bible, and therefore I believe it’.
I could use the same reasoning and the Harry Potter stories to ‘prove’ magical folk exist side-by-side with us muggles.
(BTW, what outcome did you think I proposed?)
I ask again....If there is no God, why is there something at all?
That's what science would have us believe.
They claim it's more reasonable that something popped itself into existence out of nothing for some as yet unknown reason, organized itself, and produced information, than to think that someone created it.
What’s interesting is to consider the ramifications of a universe that naturally went to increasing complexity instead of going naturally towards disorder.
There would be no decay, no breakdown of materials. Everything would over time become increasingly complex until it became a rigid, unyielding mass of material. Nothing could be done with it. Any attempts to break it down as we would think of it would only INCREASE its order and structure, making more unmanageable.
Everything would be so locked up tight that nothing could happen. There would be no release of energy only absorption.
Virtually all of the verifiable science points to a beginning, and as Jastrow says, to a scientist who has clawed himself up the mountain of knowlege only to peak over the edge to pull himself up and see a group of theologians who have been saying the same thing. Jastrow says, to the scientist, it ends in a nightmare....there seems to be a beginning and a creator.
Virtually all of the verifiable science points to a beginning, and as Jastrow says, to a scientist who has clawed himself up the mountain of knowlege only to peak over the edge to pull himself up and see a group of theologians who have been saying the same thing. Jastrow says, to the scientist, it ends in a nightmare....there seems to be a beginning and a creator.
Try cosmology. Specifically, the "quantum fluctuation" that "caused" our universe. Or the quantum foam that "causes" multiple universes. And although scientists don't use "supernatural" to describe quantum entanglement and "instantaneous" correlation at a distance, it is "supernatural".
In particular, quantum theory is non-local: it predicts entanglement between distant systems leading to correlations that cannot be explained by any theory based only on local variables [1], as demonstrated by Bell inequality. All experiments are in remarkable agreement with quantum theory. Hence, the physics community faces a very strange worldview: in theory, everything is entangled, but, in practice, decoherence makes it impossible to reveal this entanglement. In addition to its "experimental metaphysics" [2] aspects, quantum entanglement has recently gained much interest and respect because it is at the heart of quantum information processing. The general idea is that entanglement provides means to carry out tasks that are either impossible classically (quantum cryptography) or that would require significantly more steps to perform on a classical computer (searching a database, factorization) [3].
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