Posted on 03/05/2008 11:23:56 AM PST by Sub-Driver
Morality is in the eye of the beholder. 100 years from now someone on a forum could say their great grandfather actually owned guns (gasp!) at least until the government took them away without payment. Then there would be a bunch of comments from others about how immoral the great grandfather was.
So exactly what are people basing their moral outrage about slavery on? I don’t recall one of the Ten Commandments saying “Thou shall not own slaves”. Was there Slaves in the Holy Land at the time of Christ. I am sure the Romans had them. I don’t recall Jesus demanding a slave owner free his slaves.
That was surely part (but only part) of his calculation and it worked magnificantly. There were many powerful people in Britain who could see that united, America would eventually eclipse them as the world's leading power and they desired to see the union shattered and weakened and were using their influence in the British government to force them to take the side of the Confederacy. By making the war a moral issue, Lincoln cut the legs out from underneath that faction.
But Lincoln in the summer of 1862 also still hopped that he could break the Confederacy and get at least some of the less radical Southern states to return to the Union using a 'carrot and stick' approach. That, didn't work.
Well said! Hear, hear!
If the South had all that much money, why were they so damn broke during the war?
> I am sure the Romans had them. I don’t recall Jesus demanding a slave owner free his slaves.
You’re right — Our Lord didn’t.
In fact, IIRC St Paul sent an escaped slave back home to be with his Christian master.
True enough.
The Emancipation Proclamation was an attempt to gain the moral high ground, and prevent Great Britain from allying itself with the Confederacy. Worked like a charm.
Slavery was very low on the North's list of reasons for fighting the Civil War.
When are you signing up for your chains?
If you have to ask about the morality, you don't know much about slavery.
Every society and every culture engages in immoral activities and pretends it is moral because it is either popular or profitable. See abortion today. It's perfectly legal too.
...but of course, you weren’t killed during the Civil War.
Well I should do the politically correct thing and say “Slavery was wrong” and totally ignore history.
But for the time and place of the preindustrial world then yes Slavery was justified. I personally believe that it would of ended by the 1880’s because of economics such as cotton from India and Bowel Weevils.
Civilization and the United States was built on slavery. I am not trying to make a living in 1840 Alabama so who am I to judge?
I can’t figure out a morality that would result in a war with 500,000 dead, many more injured. An entire section of the nation destroyed. Reconstruction and the KKK. and racial problems since then. I guess I am immoral to say that it is better to pay the slave owners and prevent all the above from happening.
Morality is a funny thing. A liberal would say it is immoral not to have free health care for everybody no matter the cost. A communist would say that capitalism is immoral.
You are saying that George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Robert E. Lee was immoral. I am saying they are not.
If you're a postmodernist. The gun ownership remark is a red herring; when viewed objectively, there is nothing demonstrably immoral about owning a gun. The morality of any action can be objectively ascertained by observing its consequences.
IIRC God sent Moses to Egypt to free some slaves. I don’t remember any offers of compensation either. Just a random thought that came to mind.
“but the attack on Ft. Sumter forced his hand.”
And just who set up the attack? Wasn’t the South.
“If the South had all that much money, why were they so damn broke during the war?”
Might I suggest a little research on that particular bit of history?
And who wouldn’t be broke with no outlet for your products?
Further on that, the “slavery” that was considered acceptable in the Bible bore no resemblance to the chattel slave trade that the Muslims brought to the world. Slaves in biblical times were POWs, criminals, and people who sold themselves. In the latter case, it was actually a form of indenture.
I think Lincoln did the right thing, and certainly am happy that slavery was ended when it was. But it’s something I think about when there is talk of reparations.
We are all slaves, if you think you are free then don’t pay your taxes and see what your master does to you.
You know I was going to post something about Abortion that would of been the truth but would of upset those who can’t handle the truth. Again slavery.
Used to be that civilizations would base morality on what was best for that civilization. For example if you are in a group of people dependent on each other then someone committing adultery or stealing would cause tension and trouble for the group. Thereby the morality is don’t do those things.
Now there is no longer dependence on each other and risk of survival for members of civilizations they think they know morality but what they know is nothing more than emotions not reason.
The problem is your morality will lead to the slavery of your children and their children.
The 19th Century man was superior to his 21th Century descendant. He had to be to survive in his World. We have grown soft and weak and guilty of all the supposed crimes of our forefathers.
On the other hand there is over a Billion Chinese who are closer to the typical 19th Century American than we are. Your so called morality makes you weak. The Chinese will conquer us because every year we get weaker, thanks in part to your morality.
Monroe did that = Monrovia
Guns purpose is to kill, that isn’t immoral? You know “Thou shall not kill”
**The morality of any action can be objectively ascertained by observing its consequences.**
You know a good slave owner will feed and shelter his slaves. That is not good? Most of the descendants of slaves in the United States have a much better life than those who remained in Africa. Why if I invented a time machine and told everybody I was going back in time to prevent slavery I bet once everyone realized what that would mean they would try to stop me.
And what if you applied your statement to Abolitionists? Well they help cause a war and indirectly all the problems that was to plague Blacks after the Civil War.
By your statement I would have to say that Slave owners was good. We can thank them for everybody from George Washington Carver, Michael Jordon, Jackie Robinson,Condi Rice, Walter Williams to Martin Luther King.
On the other hand the Abolitionists (the so called Moralists) lead to a destructive war, to a damaging reconstruction. They destroyed the southern economy which kept the Blacks poor and disadvantaged. Why I much rather be a slaveholder than one of those evil abolitionists.
How could Lincoln free the slaves if he didn’t first preserve the Union??
What power would Lincoln have over slavery in a separate nation if the Union had lost??
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