Posted on 03/03/2008 12:08:40 PM PST by Delacon
No no no, how dare we Americans be in the way of illegal rapists who need to rape us. After all, it’s one of the jobs Bush said Americans would not do. (sarcasm off)
The amnesty program when President Reagan was in office also provided for strict enforcement against employers of illegals and other legislation intended to halt illegal immigration. The thinking at the time was to legalize illegals that were already here and make it very tough on future illegals. This seemed like a solution at the time; which is why there was little real opposition to the program. The biggest problem was that the new laws were seen to be so harsh that they were not enforced. I don’t think President Reagan could have forseen that thinking. Politicians that are trying to do an amnesty program now should have the benefit of knowing the problems that were created as a result of the previous amnesty
Wasn't Reagan President? Wasn't it his job to see that they were enforced? If not, why do so many think now that it is Bush's responsibility to see that they are enforced?
Politicians that are trying to do an amnesty program now should have the benefit of knowing the problems that were created as a result of the previous amnesty.
Perhaps, but Reagan has remained a very popular President, and there's a lot of pressure from various groups, so why not? Granting amnesty may have even helped Reagan's popularity (with Latinos, businesses and Democrats). People seem to want to give Reagan a pass on the immigration issue, almost deifying him, but they beat Bush up over it.
Please don't misunderstand. I am in favor of rounding up the illegals and shipping them back home, building a fence, and increasing border security. I make a lot of noise with both Bush and my Congressional representatives about the issue. But I find it disingenuous that Reagan, who it could easily be argued started the flood of illegals we are now stuck with, is nearly deified, while the whole of the problem seems to be laid on Bush's shoulders.
True, and Clinton got a pass for breaking the law as well. ;)
So, do you think that no illegals came over the border during Reagan's Presidency? What specifically did Reagan do to ensure the laws were enforced while he was President? If he actually did do some 'stuff', why wasn't he able to ensure they were enforced? Do you not think that granting amnesty encourages illegals to come over the border?
You're being disengenuous, giving Reagan a 'pass' on this issue while laying the whole of the problem on Bush's shoulders.
Reagan did not create the problem, he did not start the flood by any means-
President Carter’s administration made many changes in the way the border was enforced- the main thing that caused problems was to get Border Patrol away from the border on the theory that they could just patrol the highways near the border. That essentially opened up the border-and started a flood but our wise politicians never figured that one out. Anyway when Reagan took office that was one of the many problems he inherited from Carter. The thinking at the time was to legalize those that had been here for years- then use stiff sanctions against employers so there would be no incentive for new illegals to come. While Reagan was in office the employer sanctions (remember the $10,000 fine for hiring an illegal?) were new and people were afraid to hire illegals- it seemed the program would work. The amnesty part seemed like it was working also- except there was a lot of fraud and illegals that had not been here the required time were able to use fake documents to get amnesty. A few years on down the road- (1st Bush/ early Clinton administrations) employers realized there was no enforcement going on so they started freely hiring illegals again- causing a new flood but President Reagan was no longer in office so he cannot be blamed for the lack of enforcement.
I lived on the border during all this mess, it was really bad during Carter- illegals pouring in, crime- the whole bit. During the Reagan years it slowed down a lot, started to pick up again under the first Bush administration and then was at flood stage under Clinton. Groups of illegals of 50+ were regularly pouring in, crime picked up. The problem had become very serious by the time this President Bush took office; people living on the border complained and were ignored, there was little or nothing done. The Minutemen came into being and made sure word got out about all the problems here- yet President Bush was in denial- he was not only slow to react- he made it plain he didn’t intend to do much. These are the reasons I give Reagan a pass, his administration’s policies worked at the time- and might have continued to work if they had been enforced regularly over the years. I won’t give President Bush a pass because the problems were serious when he took office, he was indeed made aware of them and chose to ignore the issue until he was forced to do something- even then did as little as possible. As bad as the border issues are we also face the very real problem that terrorists are crossing the border as well and still the problems are not being dealt with effectively. That is why I won’t give this President a pass on the border issues- he did inherit the problem, but his policies made the problems worse.
No, but the granting of amnesty certainly made the problem worse.
These are the reasons I give Reagan a pass, his administration’s policies worked at the time
So you're claiming that no (or few) illegal immigrants came across the border in Reagan's time? I'll need some evidence if I'm to buy that.
I won’t give President Bush a pass because the problems were serious when he took office
And it wasn't serious when Reagan granted amnesty? We disagree on that. (Your own words claim that changes Carter made 'started a flood', so obviously the problem was serious then.)
Sorry, Reagan and other previous Presidents get as much blame for this mess as Bush.
The only proof I have that Reagan’s policies seemed to work while he was in office is my own observation. During Carter illegals and crime were out of control on the border. After Reagan had been in office a couple of years the illegal traffic and crime slowed down and then began to pick up again during the first Bush- out of control again under Clinton, especially toward the end. I can easily tell what border policies work- at least in the short term by looking out my kitchen window. Right now illegal traffic past my window is less than it has been in a while- of course we have National Guard, which they keep threatening to pull away from the border- this administration has so far only offered short-term solutions and then only grudgingly. At the same time they have tried to silence those of us speaking out by denigrating us as racists and vigilantes. You should surely be able to see why I hold President Bush up as a failure on the border. The issues are far more serious than when Reagan or any other recent president was in office (9/11) and yet Bush is unwilling to take measures to solve the issue- for whatever reason.
Reagan’s policies obviously did not work long-term, I think mainly due to lack of will to enforce sanctions on employers. I think amnesty was a terrible idea in hindsight though I admit I had no real objection to it at the time. Everyone should now know that amnesty does not work- so anyone suggesting it now is under greater scrutiny. I don’t mind someone trying to solve a problem and failing- but this administration has not tried to solve the problems- they don’t see the border issues as problems and yet want to redo failed policies of the past just to placate those of us that are bringing the problems to light.
Yes, indeed, I do. And you should surely be able to see why I hold President Reagan up as a failure as well. Reagan was a great President, but like Bush, he failed when it came to the borders issue.
HuH? You can't read. Granting amnesty is NOT the same thing as encouraging them to come over. Bush has been openly encouraging them since 2000.
Yes, indeed. Keep attacking a dead man while trying to exonorate the current president. Reagan did not fail. Congress failed to support the law.
It sure seems you like the idea of illegals invading the U.S.
Oh puhleeze. I've not tried to exonorate Bush. If you have actually read my posts instead of just jerking your knee, you've seen that I said he's been wrong on immigration.
And being dead doesn't mean that something you messed up suddenly becomes a good thing.
Reagan did not fail.
Ah, so granting amnesty is not failure in your eyes. Got it.
:::rolls eyes:::
So you think that if Bush had granted amnesty to the illegals currently here, it would not have emboldened more illegals to come? Of course you think it would. Then why don't you think it did when Reagan granted amnesty?
Because you have deified Reagan.
Thanks for making my point for me.
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