The Oysters Come Home to Roast (Romney=Kerry)

National Review Online ^ | 2/6/2008 | Mark Steyn

[ajay_kumar]

Attacks on McCain have ALREADY started! I told you so!!

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200802/POL20080206f.html

[ruination]

His problems are on the high-profile issues where he deviates.

A quirk of McCain's we'll have to get used to.

[jan in Colorado]

It ain't bigotry to take a personal slur personally.

I am not even a Mormon, and that little stunt of Huckabee's infuriated me, so I can't even imagine how Mormon's felt about it. In fact, that was when I KNEW I would never support him. It shows him as disingenuous, and when you are running as the "Man of God", then you better live up to it. He pulled 3 such stunts during his campaign, as well as the orchestrated cabal with McCain and Ron Paul, to make sure that Romney lost West Virginia.

McCain and Huckabee campaign just like the Clintons and their policies are close enough that they should all be in the SAME Party...The DemocRAT Party!

I certainly don't want my Christian faith to be judged by the actions of Huckabee.

He who goes about as a slanderer reveals secrets,
Therefore do not associate with a gossip.
Proverbs 20:19

[Texas Federalist]

It will be KBH for McCain’s VP.

You may be right. She's scarier than Perry.

[Deut28]

Your refusal to answer the question is quite telling. Can you name a single major Christian denomination that accepts Mormons as Christians?

Do you consider Ward Churchill a Native American? He says he is. Do I have a built in bias if I say he’s not? Is it a slur?

Stating that Mormon’s aren’t Christian in theological beliefs is not a slight, slur or denigration. It’s a simple statement of fact. It is not claiming superiority in any way.

FYI - I’m not a Bible Belt Southerner. Perhaps you have a little built in bias. I’m offended by the slur.

And at the end of the day, you’re still exercising moral relativity. And totalling ignoring the fact that the bias wasn’t just against Huck, but also McCain.

[Paulus Invictus]

Or worse, liberals like the co-presidents named Clinton. All you need is one visit to Little Rock to experience pure Clinton adulation still shown by those benighted voters. Does anyone recall their second inauguration crowning in Little Rock. It was past sickening.

[jan in Colorado]

*voting with your "conscious".

Sorry...actually we should vote our conscience, but I think those voting for McCain were unconscious!

[x]

Romney was the Republican John Kerry.

Effete flip-flopping French-speaking Massachusetts liberal, except this time pushed by the conservative media rather than the MSM.

The South was never going to vote for a liberal Yankee like that, and the accusations of anti-Mormon bigotry from the Romney folks make them sound just like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson on race, preaching hate and playing the victim card.

You may have a valid point. But I don't think you're making it that well.

What I mean is, to some people everybody from the other part of the country is indistinguishable. If you come from that other part of the country that's not very convincing.

So for example, if a Northerner said Huckabee was just another Carter or Clinton, Southerners might think he didn't know what he was talking about.

It's the same with comparing Romney with Kerry. It doesn't make much sense if you come from their part of the country and you see the real differences between the two.

Also I'm not sure talk about anti-Mormon bigotry stems from the Romney campaign. The press looked at past and present opinion polls and started wondering about whether a Mormon could get elected.

[AFA-Michigan]

Semper fi, Major. My Dad was a WWII leatherneck, survived Pearl Harbor. I did Army, but post a Semper fi bumpersticker on my car in my Dad’s honor.

Anyway, truth is that McCain and Romney both are RINOs.

Romney was ranked #8 on conservative newsweekly Human Events’ list of Top Ten RINOs.

As to McCain-Feingold, I despise it, but let’s be give credit/blame where credit/blame is due.

It was McCain-Feingold-Thompson (as in Fred) and it wouldn’t be law today had Bush not signed it into law.

So to be honest, it’s McCain-Feingold-Thompson-Bush.

Salute!

[JohnnyZ]

It's the same with comparing Romney with Kerry. It doesn't make much sense if you come from their part of the country and you see the real differences between the two.

I see almost no difference between Mitt and Kerry, and I grew up in New England and have followed their political careers for 15 years -- though I've since gone South and gone country.

I listed some of the contrasts between Huck/Mac and Willard Mitt Kerry on hot-button issues further down the thread. It's very dramatic how Mitt is absolutely wrong for the South.

[beaversmom]

Hi jan in CO—very difficult times we are in. I’m one of those people that always votes. I wasn’t one of those that sat out 2006. Well, even I’m struggling with what to do in November. Mr. McCain’s views, votes, and attitude is not very inspiring to say the least. I definitely wasn’t happy with what happened in West Virginia yesterday. I really don’t know what to do, but right now I’m leaning toward voting in November but skipping over President. I hope some kind of miracle happens between now and then.

[x]

I see almost no difference between Mitt and Kerry, and I grew up in New England and have followed their political careers for 15 years -- though I've since gone South and gone country.

That's incredible.

I posted because you called them both "effete." Whatever you think of Mitt's campaign, he's not effete. He's been married to the same woman for years and raised several sons.

Mitt's also been a success in business. That's quite a contrast to the gigolo Kerry who's never held a real job.

You can hate Mitt. I can understand that. I'm not that crazy about him lately either. But I doubt anybody who knew him would say he's effete and no different from Kerry.

You also called both men "French-speaking" -- as a slur? Well, there's a difference between a guy who went to France to summer at his aunt's mansion and one who went there to knock on doors as a missionary.

[Checkers]

Great post.

Btw, it should come as no surprise that Mormons voted against Huckabee.
David Duke doesn’t get votes from Blacks. Al Sharpton doesn’t do well among Jews. Same diff.

[LexBaird]

Your refusal to answer the question is quite telling. Can you name a single major Christian denomination that accepts Mormons as Christians?

Yes, it's telling you that I consider your question to be immaterial. Christ decides who are Christians and who are merely crying "Lord, Lord...", not you, or the Pope, or the Missouri Synod, or the Mormon high council. He's the only one with the authority to make the call, and He said "all who believe..."

Therefore, until someone who professes belief in Christ proves himself to be a non-Christian by his fruits, on an individual basis, I'll leave such judgments up to Him.

Now, if you want to contend that the Baptists can say who a Baptist is, or that the Pope can excommunicate a Catholic, I'll cede that earthly authority to the leaders of those Christian sects.

Do you consider Ward Churchill a Native American? He says he is. Do I have a built in bias if I say he’s not? Is it a slur?

Ethnicity is a matter of inherited DNA, not belief. One cannot believe their way into a different family tree. Your analogy doesn't hold.

Stating that Mormon’s aren’t Christian in theological beliefs is not a slight, slur or denigration. It’s a simple statement of fact. It is not claiming superiority in any way.

Stating that they are not Trinitarians in theological belief is a statement of fact. Stating that they are not Christian in theological belief is above your paygrade. Insisting that it is so, despite their objection to the statement, most certainly is a denigration of their faith and a slur on their beliefs. It is intentionally provocative and offensive. Or, in your case, maybe unintentionally provocative and offensive; you seem somewhat oblivious.

Plus, it is claiming superiority to say your definition of Christians is so, and that theirs is so inferior as to not even qualify for the Name, a Name that is supposed to be taken on individual by individual, in personal relationships that only each person and Christ can know.

I’m not a Bible Belt Southerner. Perhaps you have a little built in bias. I’m offended by the slur.

Pardon my assumption. Does the Bible part offend you, or the Southerner part?

And at the end of the day, you’re still exercising moral relativity. And totalling ignoring the fact that the bias wasn’t just against Huck, but also McCain.

That ain't bias, that's intelligence.

[ansel12]

“Can you name a major Christian denomination that acknowledges Mormons as Christians,”

---

Of course not, but good luck with trying to pull a truthful answer from a Mitt guy.

[La Enchiladita]

Thanks, Jan, for your commentary. I’m still waiting for the dust to settle and for Romney’s speech to CPAC.

Truly, the only way we can know how conservatively he would govern would be to nominate and elect him to the Presidency. He does seem to be earnestly responding to the wishes of conservatives; to lead by following as it were. With the other two, we know they would take “compassionate conservatism” to a “whole ‘nutha level.”

We’re dumber than the Dems this time around. Look at how they flock to a new youthful voice for change; we rally around a ..... geezer?

[LexBaird]

Okay, I’ll play a bit.

Let’s see, a major Christian denomination that acknowledges Mormons as Christians. How about the 10-13 million member Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?

Now, it’s your turn try to explain why someone else’s opinion of ones sincere beliefs is more valid than ones own, and scold me for not falling for logical fallacy such as a “begged” question that assumed an answer within itself. When you define “Christian” as “Those who I agree with are Christian” and then set a question to find a “Christian denomination” that disagrees with you, you set up a logical null set.

Next, you might attempt the “But the biggest denominations agree with me” ploy, which is, of course, another logical fallacy known as Argument from Authority or Majority. The flaw being that they are not the Authority, Christ is, and that ones personal faith is not subject to majority rule.

Then, you might move on to another ad hominum, like calling me untruthful again.

And finally, after none of those work, you can try changing the subject again.

There, I saved us all some time.

[ansel12]

Cute, asking the cult for the answer.

All of the Christian faiths require Mormons to be baptized into Christianity.

The Vatican, the Greek Orthodox, all the rest are in agreement on Mormonism.

http://www.catholic.com/library/noncatholic_groups.asp

Here is Southern baptist http://www.4truth.net/site/c.hiKXLbPNLrF/b.3471385/k.6CD7/Are_Mormons_Christians.htm

Lutheran http://www.lcms.org/pages/print.asp?
NavID=12308&path=%2Fpages%2Frpage.asp&print=1

Assemblies of God http://pentecostalevangel.ag.org/Articles2002/4579_spencer.cfm

United Methodist http://archives.umc.org/umns/news_archive1999.asp?story=%7B3BE161B2-8603-4B32-A64F-0C9D2CBFAF85%7D&mid=3368

Presbyterians http://www.pcusa.org/interfaith/study/lds.htm

Here is the Greek Othodox position on mormonism as Christian.

http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7101.asp

cults in America http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7075.asp

[WOSG]

ajay_kumar, I shall count you as one of the wise ones who saw ahead.

Some of us (pro-Romney) conservatives saw all this coming.

We also know that every conservative complaint - all of them legitimate - will be regurgitated by the media to keep the ‘base depressed’ on mccain and make him unelectable in the fall.

I will be saying:
“I hate to say I told ya so, but I told ya so.”

[Eva]

And conservatives were never going to vote for McCain or Huckabee. So, I guess it’s Hillary.