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Ban Of Device By ATF Triggers Inventor's Ire (NRA Alert)
TBO.com ^
| 12/26/2007
| CHRISTIAN M. WADE
Posted on 12/26/2007 8:43:59 AM PST by devane617
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To: devane617
I would post a response, but it’s just a matter of time before the ATF wants a customer list from Jim Robinson.
To: onja
In all fairness, if automatics are illegal, this accelerator should too.
No-by the letter of the law, it is legal. ATF makes up their own rules as they go. They banned the Stryker shotgun, a revolving shot gun over to class three status years back. Yet, it was legal for years. Simply a long gun revolving shotgun, very cumbersome and slow to reload. Not capable of being converted to full auto.
On a side note, a shoe lace can make an AK full auto. It was demonstrated to ATF in a court proceeding. Their opinion was shoelaces should be illegal!
For those not aware, ATF makes rulings, which are not law, and then enforces them. This is what bothers me...
To: devane617
For years, marksmen have been using a technique called bump firing, shooting a semiautomatic rifle from the hip and allowing the weapon's recoil to pull the trigger.
"FTB has concluded that your submitted device is not designed and intended for use in converting a weapon into a machine gun," ATF officials wrote in a letter dated Aug. 23, 2005.
But in 2006, several months after full production began, the ATF reversed its original ruling, outlawing the device and leaving Akins with a worthless product.
Do they, or don't they, have a dog in the fight between an abusive and mercurial ATFE vs. lawful US citizen gun owners? Yep! NRA BETTER get into this, as , shooting a semiautomatic rifle is legal. Apparently only because BATF&E has not yet pronounced from the mountaintops that semis are not legal. Which apparently BATF&E believes they have the author-i-tie to make such lofty decisions based upon
just because.
NRA very much has a dog in this fight, and they are saying this is not their job. Well if it isnt, what is?
And NRA wonders why there are 70 million firearms owners and only how many NRA members?
23
posted on
12/26/2007 9:09:41 AM PST
by
TLI
( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
To: coloradan
The NRA understood his dilemma, a spokesman told him, but didn't have a dog in the fight. This is as good a statement as any about what's wrong with the NRA. Do they, or don't they, have a dog in the fight between an abusive and mercurial ATFE vs. lawful US citizen gun owners? Screw the NRA, they are cowards.
24
posted on
12/26/2007 9:12:09 AM PST
by
tiger-one
(The night has a thousand eyes)
To: Dumpster Baby; devane617
Just looking at the video DB provided I would say the device modifies the action around the sear. The report mentions springs. I’d guess the device bumps the sear down before it can engage the bolt.
The BATF is real touchy about messing with sears. Anybody with an AR15 type rifle needs to be aware of that fact.
25
posted on
12/26/2007 9:14:16 AM PST
by
PeteB570
(Guns, what real men want for Christmas)
To: Aut Pax Aut Bellum
For those not aware, ATF makes rulings, which are not law, and then enforces them. EXACTLY. Despite the tragedy of this one man--being an inventor myself, I hope he finds a way to at least recoup some of his money--the underlying horror is that a group of bureaucrats have the power to tacitly create law from thin air, and then enforce it, destroying people in the process.
MM (in TX)
26
posted on
12/26/2007 9:15:02 AM PST
by
MississippiMan
(Behold now behemoth...he moves his tail like a cedar. Job 40:17)
To: devane617
27
posted on
12/26/2007 9:15:37 AM PST
by
bjs1779
The added danger being that governments often do not even recognize God given rights.
To: devane617
only the MSM would call firing from the hip as being a technique used be “marksmen”.
29
posted on
12/26/2007 9:20:06 AM PST
by
WOBBLY BOB
(I think I'll buy everyone a carbon credit for Christmas.)
To: onja
In all fairness, if automatics are illegal, this accelerator should too.
In all fairness you are wrong. These were not deemed illegal initially, and correctly, because as the law states an automatic fires multiple rounds per trigger action.
30
posted on
12/26/2007 9:20:22 AM PST
by
SFC Chromey
(We are at war with Islamofascists inside and outside our borders, now ACT LIKE IT!)
To: devane617
To the ATF, the mechanism is an illegal converter kit that, in the wrong hands, could turn a run-of the-mill target rifle into a 700-round-per-minute killing machine. Any firearm, regardless of cyclic rate, is a killing machine.
To: tiger-one; TLI
Then of course any of you NRA haters can always start your own Gun Lobby instead of cry-babying about the one we already have.
32
posted on
12/26/2007 9:23:33 AM PST
by
fish hawk
(The religion of Darwinism = Monkey Intellect)
To: bjs1779
“What are they going to do with rubber bands then?”
Outlaw them. Along with ‘bumps’ and ‘shoulders’.
33
posted on
12/26/2007 9:25:30 AM PST
by
UCANSEE2
(Just saying what 'they' won't.)
To: devane617
Hey! I know! Since government itself isn't following the Constitution, let's try and use government to fix itself. That'll work won't it? Let's get out the vote!(/sarc)
Wake me up you y'all are ready for discussing real options. Including massive civil disobedience...
Imagine if an effort along the lines of the Bonus Army pulled more of a Battle of Athens...
34
posted on
12/26/2007 9:26:52 AM PST
by
Dead Corpse
(What would a free man do?)
To: onja
In all fairness, if automatics are illegal, this accelerator should too. The problem is that according to the law they are legal, and this guy put 10 years and everything he had into making it based on that law. Just the phrase "by a single function of the trigger" makes the law not apply to this device, since the trigger has to function for each shot.
Then the ATF, as usual, goes out and makes its own law. And we thought activist judges were bad.
To: Malone LaVeigh
Well that statement about firing 700 a minute just alarms the public who don’t know anything about guns.
Until I see a 700 round magazine then those guns are not going to shoot 700 rounds per minute.
Somebody should do the math on how fast someone would have to switch 40 round magazines in order to shoot 700 rounds per minute.
36
posted on
12/26/2007 9:27:46 AM PST
by
Swiss
To: onja
In all fairness, if automatics are illegal, this accelerator should too. They knew exactly what it was.
It's kind of obvious from it's total lack of comment that this device applied to other rifles (which it mentions in the article is where they were going with it) would have destroyed most of the Class III market, the value of the obscenely overpriced firearms in that market, relegating the entire stock of transferable select fire weapons to dusty museum pieces and ended most of the reason for ATF to exist.
Somebody put two and two together and figured out the Adkins device would effectively put ATF out of the firearms business. That would leave them with pretty much nothing but a one question call center and chasing cigarette smugglers away from Indian Reservations.
37
posted on
12/26/2007 9:34:06 AM PST
by
TLI
( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
To: devane617
A long sad tale! I hate to say this, but he should have seen this coming. The ATF is not about to allow "conversion kits" for any semiautomatic rifle. He can wiggle and dance all he wants but that is exactly what his invention was. I'm surprised that the ATF passed it on the first go round.
I have often thought of electrical devices to achieve the same end. A small motor turning a cam to activate the trigger for instance or a solenoid activated trigger in series with a NO switch which is closed by the bolt returning to battery would fulfill the one shot per trigger pull requirement but I expect the ATF would disagree. If you think about it a Gatling gun (Mini gun) is technically not a machine gun since it is not self activated by recoil or expanding propellant gas. It just sits there until someone turns the crank. Add an electric motor and you can rip off four thousand rounds per minute and I would fully expect the ATF to consider it Class-III along with any other electrical add on mechanism.
As I said, too bad, so sad!
Regards,
GtG
38
posted on
12/26/2007 9:34:10 AM PST
by
Gandalf_The_Gray
(I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
To: bjs1779
Oh My God!!! We must ban rubber bands IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do I really need a sarcasm tag?
39
posted on
12/26/2007 9:34:20 AM PST
by
SW6906
(6 things you can't have too much of: sex, money, firewood, horsepower, guns and ammunition.)
To: DaveLoneRanger
40
posted on
12/26/2007 9:34:54 AM PST
by
SW6906
(6 things you can't have too much of: sex, money, firewood, horsepower, guns and ammunition.)
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