Posted on 12/21/2007 2:29:15 PM PST by wintertime
1) If A.J. Reynolds is teaching what he believes and knows to be false, what he is doing is breaking one of the Ten Commandments. He is bearing false witness to his students every day. What sort of "Christian" examples is lying?
2) Why would any Christian teacher agree to use text books that teach lies to students? If the students know that the teacher is a Christian isn't this teaching the students that Christians agree to, aid, and abet lying?
3)If teachers "must be very careful never to say anything that doesn't toe the party line", I ask, "What 'party'? The atheistic Marxist 'party' line?"
4) How is it possible to serve two masters? It is not possible to serve a secular, agnostic, or even atheistic master and Christ, nor is it possible to be lukewarm about Christianity.
5) A.L.Reynolds states, "Still following my calling at a tremendous price." Maybe it is costing so much in emotional energy pricely because he or she is deceived that teaching in a government school is a "calling".
6) If 85% of children from Christian homes leave the faith after graduation from high school (homeschoolers: 90% faithful). If children with Christian parents have such a poor track record, then what possible influence could a Christian teacher have on non-Christian children who go home to non-Christian homes every night? In my opinion: none! What the Christian teacher is doing is worse! The Christian teacher is doing is aiding, abetting, enabling, and supporting the atheistic government institution.
7)If the Christian teacher is a member of the NEA, he is directly giving money to an enemy of Christianity. ( Just read their website.)
Solution: Christian teachers should quit their government jobs!
The most urgent and important mission call of any Christian is their OWN children and the children of their OWN congregations!!!
Get your own children OUT of government schools and work to get the children of your congregation out of government schools.
Establish private Christian schools, or ( better still) establish "one room school house" cooperatives among your congregation members. Christian teachers could be a wonderful resource to the Christians in your neighborhoods and congregations.
Once there is a well-functioning education program in your congregation take in other non-Christians, but only as many as would not overwhelm the Christian culture of the school or "one room schools". Mentor and love the parents of these non-Christian children and teach them to be good parents.
Work to establish private Christian scholarship foundations so that every child in the U.S. who wanted a Christian education could get one. If Harvard can have a 35$ BILLION ( with a "B") endowment then Christians could to the same. We could do it if we wanted.
Christian government teachers it is time to give it up! You should not be teaching lies. You should not be hiding your light or suppressing you open testimony for most of the day. You should not be giving money to the NEA. You should not be enabling a god-less, atheistic, or agnostic government indoctrination camps.
( I have not proofed this. Gotta run!)
I disagree. Not all Christian parents can afford private schools or homeschooling. And the children of liberals deserve to hear the truth as much as anyone else.
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.”
—Mark, 16:15
As do I. Godless evolution did not prevent me from working many years as a Christian professional biologist. Christians should never withdraw from the paganistic world nor should they hide their light under a basket. Although not scriptural, I believe we should keep our friends close and our enemies even closer.
nor should they hide their light under a basket.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I agree. Christian teachers should let their light shine in the government schools and get fired. They should never, never lie to their students ( bear false witness) and they give the kids books that lie.
bump
Just last night, I was teaching my kid about existentialsim and how it leads to despair, and how it does NOT reflect a Christian worldview. His 11th-grade Advanced Placement English teacher has had his students read Camus' "The Stranger", Beckett's "Waiting for Godot" and 3 other existentialist plays. I told my kid that the teacher is trying to influence the students' thinking, and that the students, and their parents, don't realize that the students are in a philosophy class rather than just an English class. When we finished our discussion, my kid prayed for the other kids in his class and that the Christian kids wouldn't lose their faith. I was so proud of him.
And the children of liberals deserve to hear the truth as much as anyone else.
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.”
—Mark, 16:15
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I absolutely agree. They should let their light shine and get fired for doing it.
They should NEVER, never lie to a child by teaching a curriculum that they know is wrong, that they don’t believe in, or is ineffective.
They should never lie ( bear false witness —One of the Ten Commandments) about anything in the curriculum, nor should they give their students books that lie.
Yep! The absolutely should preach the gospel to their government school students, and integrate what they know about the Gospel into everything they say and do in their government school.
When the government school chews them up and spits them out, then they should do what I posted in message #1.
Beside, You at a teacher can always begin the class by saying “I am a Christian and I do not believe in this but I have to teach it”. I had teachers who said that! (Morgana)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is anyone holding a gun to the head of any Christian teacher that they would be “forced” to teach a lie?
So? ...Why would a Christian teacher stand at the head of a class, declare that they were a Christian, and then proceed to teach a falsehood? What they are teaching the students is that Christians lie and will declare themselves Christians **before** they do it!!!!
By using the word “forced”, do you mean they would lose their job and paycheck? Then what they have just taught the students is that Christians will lie for money!
On a plane, the flight attendants advise passengers to put the oxygen mask ONE THEIR OWN FACES FIRST! Once they have done this, then they can help others.
What Christian churches, and their members, are failing to do it put the oxygen mask on their own faces FIRST. If they do not consider their OWN children, as their most important mission call, then the church will not be able, ( in the future) to help others as effectively as if they had armies of valiant youth. When 85% of Christian children who graduate from government school are not active in the faith 2 years later, this is evidence that the oxygen mask did not get to the faces of their OWN children! In contrast more than 90% of homeschoolers are active in their faith.
If children from Christian homes have such a poor success rate, then I think Christian teachers are foolish to think that they can influence the children of non-Christians in their position as teacher. In fact, by lying to non-Christian students, they are making it much more UNLIKELY that these non-Christians would be attracted to Christ.
Please ping school list.
Others may be interested.
Wintertime, you couldn’t be more wrong. More and more Christians need to get into public education - not out of it. In addition, Christians need to vote for conservative school board members, conservative county and state representatives, and of course conservative federal representatives. These are the ones who determine the curriculum.
There are many, many strong consevative teachers who pass on conservative values to their students. What better mission field for consevatism and Judeo-Christian values than in the public school!! It is true I cannot “preach” to my students and try to get them to “convert” to Christ - but I can give them all the sides to historical, moral, and political issues. Kids are not stupid - if given the truth, they can figure it out.
Also, many parents who cannot afford to send their students to private school appreciate teachers giving their kids good moral values. Most parents are conservative in their views about right and wrong - even the ones who are not particularly religious. I have been teaching in public school for 13 years and I have never had a parent complain to me about including traditional Christmas carols in our school programs (I am an elementary music teacher). I get to expose my students to the music of American culture (our folk music, spirituals, American composers), the “unrevised” version of American history, and the Judeo-Christian historical background to 95% of our holidays.
For the last three weeks I’ve been able to tell over 700 students (mulitply that by 13 years and it comes to over 9000 kids) that attend my school the story of Christmas and I get to tell them where the story comes from - I do the same for Hanukkah as well (which is also mentioned in the New Testament). I can give them the facts - I don’t have to tell them what they have to believe. At least they hear the truth - and you would abandon these wonderful kids??? I have made this presentation on Christmas in front of our assistent principal and had no problems. Of course there are some public school principals who are “gun-shy” about any mention of religion - but this is more from lawsuit happy lawyers than antagonism toward religion. Presenting information to kids is non-religious. I tell my students that this is what Jewish people believe or this is what Christians believe - and then I give them the facts. I haven’t preached at them or advocated anything - just gave them the facts. And you want me to give this opportunity up? No way!
You are trying to frame the question as a “lying - don’t lie” issue. It isn’t lying to give students all sides of a subject - even sides that the teacher may personally disagree with - their students are going to have to face these opposing views sooner or later - why not from someone who will give them both sides? Why leave them to the mercy of the ACLU and the NEA. Which by the way, I do not belong to our teachers union - I belong to Christian Educators Association. Most teachers are conservative, but are scared into joining the local union for the liability insurance because they are unaware of other sources of this insurance.
You are a discouragement to those conservative, (often Christian) teachers who doing their best to make a positive impact - instead, you shoot us in the back when you should be cheering us on. But, I’m not a quitter. There may well come a time when giving all the facts will get me in trouble. If it does, so be it, but for now I do all I can to teach my students all the truth I can. Why don’t you help instead of surrendering?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I am right. I have posted a powerful idea, and it WILL catch on! (please read my tag line)
I know you feel strongly about this but I don’t see that it fits either ping list.
At the very least, I agree that some on the *Another Reason* list might be interested, but it is not a REASON to homeschool.
Perhaps Dave might feel that this would be more appropriate for his list.
I understand your reasoning on this issue but don’t think it’s a good idea myself. I know several strong Christians that teach at the public school and college level and consider it their mission field.
I’ve had Christian profs and teachers and I’ve been very grateful for them. Aside from the fact that I know they won’t hold my worldview against me, I have always found them to be the best teachers I’ve had by far. Their commitment to excellence and desire to be a good testimony by doing the best job possible has given me a better education for that.
Missionaries are needed everywhere, and I shudder to think what the system would be like without the moderating influence and prayer of those committed Christians in the battlefield.
If God calls someone into teaching, I don’t see that it’s any different than someone who is called to be a missionary in a communist or muslim country. We are to be salt. Salt must be sprinkled everywhere to be effective.
Again, I understand your reasoning and certainly don’t disagree with all of it, but I think there is a need for Christian teachers. Seeing the environment that some kids grow up in, it likely to be the ONLY Christian exposure these kids will ever get.
I agree: We need MORE conservative teachers...not less.
Although my education was aimed at a teaching career in biology, I decided instead to work in the field rather than to teach. (Not that teaching is not work. It is most certainly hard work!) The only teaching experience I have was as a grad student many years ago. It was very rewarding but I know only enough about teaching to say it is a honorable profession but it carries with it the additional responsibility of shaping the minds of future generations.
“I am right. I have posted a powerful idea, and it WILL catch on!”
You are advocating surrender. This is neither right nor powerful - only weakness in the face of opposition. I hope to God that your idea doesn’t catch on.
bump
The government schools would get worse faster.
This is exactly what is needed. The faster good people abandon the government cesspools, the quicker, and more likely, that good people will organize the massive school tax revolt needed to drain the secularist, atheistic, Marxist, government school swamp.
What's needed here is complete collapse of the government schools system, and starting over from scratch with a completely private system.
Missionaries are needed everywhere,
Missionaries seem to be everywhere except saving their own children and the children of their own congregations! If that isn't their most important mission field then what on earth is????!!!
85% of children from Christian homes leave the faith within 2 years of graduation from government schools. Where are the Christian teachers to save them???!! What a loss of valiant youth! What a loss of armies future missionaries that could be bringing the lost of this nation to Christ!
there is a need for Christian teachers
Given the abysmal stats on retention in the faith of government schooled youth, as compared to the excellent retention of homeschoolers, yes, (indeed!), we do need Christian teachers. We needed them to support Christian homeschoolers, and they are needed in formal brick and mortar Christian schools as well. Once Christian education is straightened, then we can **truly** and effectively mentor and be effective missionaries to non-Christian students and their parents.
As for government schools, it is against the law to be a truly Christian teacher in a government school.
Are all sides equally valid? I certainly do not think so. Christ is the one true and best way. How can you give "all sides" to that vital message? If you with hold this opinion then there isn't much light be shown, or much salt added to the salad.
Is the "Giving-All-Sides" method of teaching, a "trick" for somehow sneaking in one tiny Christian grain of salt mixed up in a great big secular, atheistic, agnostic worldview package? It sounds that way to me.
Also, many parents who cannot afford to send their students to private school appreciate teachers giving their kids good moral values. Most parents are conservative in their views about right and wrong - even the ones who are not particularly religious.
It appears to me that what these conservative parents would **really** like are good private schools, with clear understandable values that also happen to be Christian values! The longer government schools are aided, abetted, and propped up by enablers the longer this choice will be withheld from these conservative parents.
I have been teaching in public school for 13 years and I have never had a parent complain to me about including traditional Christmas carols in our school programs (I am an elementary music teacher). I get to expose my students to the music of American culture (our folk music, spirituals, American composers), the “unrevised” version of American history, and the Judeo-Christian historical background to 95% of our holidays.
A few Christian Christmas carols does not make a truly Christian educational experience.
For the last three weeks I’ve been able to tell over 700 students (mulitply that by 13 years and it comes to over 9000 kids) that attend my school the story of Christmas and I get to tell them where the story comes from - I do the same for Hanukkah as well (which is also mentioned in the New Testament).
Nothing like a little moral and religious equivalence here. What message is this sending to the children? How about the clear and unambiguous message of Christ's mission?
I can give them the facts - I don’t have to tell them what they have to believe.
Well,,,,I bet there are a whole lot of Christian homeschoolers who were told by their parent to believe that it is ONLY through Christ that our eternal souls can be saved!
Hey, maybe, just maybe, that is why 90% of them remain active and valiant in the faith, and 85% of Christian government schooled kids do not. Perhaps after 180 days a year, 6 to 7 hours a day, in government school, hearing that even an immature kid "can make up their mind about something so important" ( hey! Accept it or reject it!) that government schooled Christian kids don't know what to believe. Maybe a few good Christian teachers should start telling kids what to believe. If kids don't know what to believe they will fall for anything.
At least they hear the truth - and you would abandon these wonderful kids??? I have made this presentation on Christmas in front of our assistent principal and had no problems. Of course there are some public school principals who are “gun-shy” about any mention of religion - but this is more from lawsuit happy lawyers than antagonism toward religion. Presenting information to kids is non-religious.
What Christan kids need is a clear and unambiguous **religious** message! They need to hear the kind of message that is illegal in our god-less, atheistic government schools. Sneaking a Christian message into to the government schools is like putting out a raging forest fire with a garden hose.
I tell my students that this is what Jewish people believe or this is what Christians believe - and then I give them the facts. I haven’t preached at them or advocated anything - just gave them the facts. And you want me to give this opportunity up? No way!
Sounds to me like trying to sneak in a Christian message. What is this? That somehow Christianity is merely another equivalent, one world, multi-cultural philosophy? And,,,yes, I suggest the Christian teachers serious consider ( and seriously pray about) giving it up! Sneaking in Christian messages isn't going to cut it. What it teaches the non-Christian students is that Christians are sneaky and weak. If Christ spits out luke warm Christians out of his mouth, is it any wonder a non-Christian and even Christian kids are nauseated by this sneaky and luke warm message as well?
You are trying to frame the question as a “lying - don’t lie” issue. It isn’t lying to give students all sides of a subject - even sides that the teacher may personally disagree with - their students are going to have to face these opposing views sooner or later - why not from someone who will give them both sides? ,/i>
Not telling the **whole** truth is lying. The WHOLE truth is that it is only through Christ's atonement that we can gain salvation and live with God in heaven forever. In a truly Christian education that message is woven throughout the entire curriculum and supported by ALL of the school policies. That message is impossible for any Christian in any government without getting fired.
Why leave them to the mercy of the ACLU and the NEA.
This is why all Christians should immediately abandon government schooling, work to establish an alternate system of universal K-12 education, and organize a massive school tax revolt to defund the government school monstrosity.
Which by the way, I do not belong to our teachers union - I belong to Christian Educators Association. Most teachers are conservative, but are scared into joining the local union for the liability insurance because they are unaware of other sources of this insurance.
Congratulations for not belonging to the NEA. I understand that in some states that is not an option.
You are a discouragement to those conservative, (often Christian) teachers who doing their best to make a positive impact - instead, you shoot us in the back when you should be cheering us on. But, I’m not a quitter. There may well come a time when giving all the facts will get me in trouble. If it does, so be it, but for now I do all I can to teach my students all the truth I can. Why don’t you help instead of surrendering?,
Yep! You are absolutely correct. My goal is to discourage anyone from trying to reform the unredeemable.
Wintertime, you couldn’t be more wrong. More and more Christians need to get into public education - not out of it. In addition, Christians need to vote for conservative school board members, conservative county and state representatives, and of course conservative federal representatives. These are the ones who determine the curriculum.
Government schools are not reformable because the premise is faulty. Government schools can NEVER be religiously neutral. If they aren't Christian then they are some other religion. At the the moment government schools are preaching a secularist Marxism.
It is just as wrong for government to force a Christian curriculum on non-Christians as it is for the atheistic Marxists who run our government schools to force their worldview on Christians.
We have a First Amendment to protect us against government crushing our rights to free speech, free press, free expression of religion, free association, and government establishment of religious worldview ( religion). Government schools, no matter who runs them, always have, are now, and always will trash every one of these human rights.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.