Posted on 11/22/2007 6:45:51 PM PST by Ouderkirk
When the property is converted from business to private use, the tax must be paid. Your first time home buyer purchasing a used home from an investor pays the tax. Purchase a used car from Hertz, pay the tax.
ME: wont i have 30 percent more to spend without an income tax?The only thing the law dictates (HR25) is the tax. There's nothing about what affect no income tax would have on takehome...
The Fairtax own economists state that gross wages would be current takehome...But don't worry your government check will be in the mail.
I've never seen the arguments about the impact of evil "Tax Planning" before, but the author points out it is currently legal...so what's the problem? The arguments about the transfer and concentration of wealth are a little disturbing. On the other hand powerful individuals do currently attempt to leverage the influence of the federal tax system for greater power over individual citizens...would they be the same players? hmmm...maybe not.
I can't follow the arguments about the impact of social security on self-employed, the discussion of the requirement for a federal tax service to be implemented if the state "opts out" of sales tax, or the relevance that sales tax be discussed in a tax-exclusive vs tax-inclusive manner.
Undoubtedly I am not giving this post the benefit of my full, careful attention. But it may not deserve it, because the agglomeration of irrelevant rhetoric coupled with my effective annual tax rate of 80% (sales and income tax and indirect taxation) tends to influence my views on the subject. In my book, anyone who promotes the continuance of the income tax system for it's virtues is a ninny for neglecting it's costs.
If ever enacted, the Dems will turn it into a VAT at the first opportunity they have.
If you wrote a book about the Fairy Tax you should explain how bad this would screw over those on SS, especially those with after tax wealth.
They don’t get a “do over” to try again under a new system of taxation.
Perhaps in your next book you can add a footnote on that.
Well, you should. You're making the assertion. Show me the harm!
Its right in the article that is the subject of this thread.
If you are a writer you should have the skills to read it.
There are other downsides to the plan that aren’t listed but they covered enough to never vote for it.
For many social security recipients, H.R. 25 decreases purchasing power.
I said the calculation of purchasing power seems bogus because there is an assumption all purchases are taxed. Pehaps you could show me how this is not so.
If you have after tax wealth under the old system you don’t get taxed another 30% when you spend it like you would with this plan.
That alone is enough to reject the plan.
Have a nice day.
Well, to name a few off the top of my head:
Interest payments are taxed, even on "used" purchases (including mortgage interest),
earned interest is taxed,
leases are taxed,
banking services are taxed,
investment services are taxed, it's all in the bill.
Groceries are taxed.
Heating bills are taxed.
Electric bills are taxed
Garbage bills are taxed.
Sewer service is taxed.
Water service is taxed.
Gasoline is taxed.
UPS is taxed.
Mail service is taxed.
Haircuts are taxed.
Auto repair labor is taxed (I don't know about you but I prefer new parts too)
Lawn service is taxed.
Prescription and over the counter drugs are taxed.
Medical care is taxed.
ALL Insurances are taxed.
Legal services are taxed.
Rent is taxed.
Public transit is taxed.
Taxi's are taxed.
Flying is taxed.
Travel by rail is taxed.
Telephone service is taxed.
Satellite/cable service is taxed.
Your nanny/domestic service is taxed.
There's even a tax on "ANY government" wages salaries and benefits (it too is in the bill under "taxable employer").
Oh yeah, and not everyone likes buying used TVs, computers, and other electronic equipment let alone wear their neighbor’s used clothing.
These have got to be the poison pills of the proposal, dooming it to permanent failure until removed.
Treating home ownership as a taxable purchase when it is a basic necessity is exactly backwads, if purchasing a house as an "investment" is not taxable. This incredible proposal guarantees (worse) spiraling housing costs forever!
Government purchases as taxable? What mental giant dreamed that one up? He/she/it proposes a 30% tax rate on non-governmental purchases, and an additional 30% for the government to "pay taxes" to itself! To wit:
I buy $1000 worth of taxable goods and "pay" the government $300. But for that same government to buy $300 worth of goods or services now costs $390! Which will come from...? You guessed it.
Nice try, but on close inspection, Mr. Adler’s credentials are suspect.
We are to take as gospel this “presentation” by a UCLA MBA graduate who is an assistant accounting professor at Chapman University?
“. . . Mr. Adler is currently an assistant professor of accounting at Chapman University. He was previously a partner with Deloitte & Touche, LLP, from which he retired in 2003 after 30 years with that firm. He specialized in tax accounting and served as client service and tax partner for a variety of public and private companies. Mr. Adler is a certified public accountant, licensed in the State of California.”
It would appear that Mr. Adler has made his entire fortune, and continues to profit by working within the context of the Federal Internal Revenue Code. One could hardly expect him to trash the very system that has made him rich and famous, could one?
Therefore, one must conclude that he has a particular ax to grind, despite his weak comment that the current FIRC is not the right long term answer for the US.
Likewise, he asserts that the FairTax is not the right long term answer for the US.
If they are not, Mr. Adler, then what is?
What is your proposal?
Flat tax, 10% across the board, EVERYONE PAYS (I do mean EVERYONE) and NO exemptions or deductions
Ironic, since the income tax is one of the planks of the Communist Manifesto.
And it doesn't matter how flat it is. It's still anathema to American liberty.
Your illogic means we can never shed ourselves of the IRS and the income tax code.
That’s like a prisoner refusing to leave the jail, even though the door is wide open, because he likes his nice warm cot.
Maybe it's time for the elder generation to strive for the good of the ensuing generation, instead of feeling entitled to the fruit of all their children's and grandchildren's labors.
Fact is, a good proportion of the capital in this country is possessed by those who are older, and the entire system now is set up to reinforce that. They have most of the disposable income, while the younger generation struggles to put food on their children's table and keep a roof over their heads. It's crazy.
One more example of how backwards our priorities are these days.
`SEC. 101. IMPOSITION OF SALES TAX.
`(a) In General- There is hereby imposed a tax on the use or consumption in the United States of taxable property or services.
`(b) Rate-
`(1) FOR 2007- In the calendar year 2007, the rate of tax is 23 percent of the gross payments for the taxable property or service.
“Maybe it’s time for the elder generation to strive for the good of the ensuing generation, instead of feeling entitled to the fruit of all their children’s and grandchildren’s labors.
Fact is, a good proportion of the capital in this country is possessed by those who are older, and the entire system now is set up to reinforce that. They have most of the disposable income, while the younger generation struggles to put food on their children’s table and keep a roof over their heads. It’s crazy.”
The problem is that they played by the rules and retired under the old system. They can’t get a “do over” and there are many of them living on much less than 20K a year.
They just scrape by now and can’t survive a 30% cut which is exactly what it would be if they spend all their income just to survive.
They don’t want to buy used FOOD and thats what the fairy tax plan is, USED FOOD!
“Oh yeah, and not everyone likes buying used TVs, computers, and other electronic equipment let alone wear their neighbor’s used clothing.”
Don’t forget used food.
Thats what this plan is trying to sell, used food!
Fine, stay in the prison house, because a certain portion of the population is too selfish to care about their posterity.
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