Boeing bosses spy on workers

Seattle-PI.com ^ | Friday, November 16, 2007 | ANDREA JAMES

[StolarStorm]

My point is... we do need some new privacy laws. It may be a legal right to snoop, but that doesn’t mean that it is RIGHT. Like I said, our personal lives are now intertwined with our work lives now that employers have many employees (like me) on 24/7 on call status. I NEED to be able to conduct some personal business in the office at times, just as I NEED to work at home at times. Things have changed. The way we work has changed. And privacy laws need to be changed to accommodate it.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

Thank you. Trump point.

[Cringing Negativism Network]

On an emotional level, I agree with you 100%.

But then again, I don’t.

It sounds to me, like we both work in large companies. I happen to like my job. Quite a lot, actually. I have only ever had two bosses who actually made me uncomfortable, and both have since moved on. For the most part, I have found our management to have almost been overly concerned with what we, as the staff, think about things.

In a large organization, it’s easy sometimes to lose sight of the chain of ownership.

So we start thinking not like employees, but like citizens.

Management becomes a sort of government. We, as citizens of a free country with the best darn Constitution history has ever seen — expect certain rights.

Except we’re at work.

Someone ELSE owns the company. They’re the one, with the rights.

If you or I were to decide we’ve had enough of the corporate bureaucracy, and go open a coffee shop, or a hardware store — we would own it.

Then, we could decide the rules.

Don’t know about you, but I don’t own the corporation.

I’ve got a couple shares of stock through an employee participation program, but basically I’m just a hired hand.

That’s reality. I’m ok with that. If ever I am not, I’ll leave.

[StolarStorm]

How about most of us knowledge workers get paid over-time then? Times have changed, many of us don't work hourly. We work at home, we work on vacation when needed, and should be able to buy our wife an anniversary present online during lunch if we have no choice.

Companies that spy on salary employees and/or harass them about incidental non work usage of the internet or time, should be made to pay over time to those employees when they work during "non work" hours.

[JoanVarga]

You’ll get no complaint from me. Salary workers should have a different level of expectations from their employer. If that hasn’t been worked out ahead of time, it’s time to do so now.

I’m salaried, I’ve worked at home, and I’m conscientious. My boss knows I’m delivering more than what is expected. It works out because neither of us abuses that trust. Bigger corporations don’t have that luxury, but bigger corps can offer better benefits, etc.

You gotta make it work, or just realize that until you start your own business, work sucks. After you start your own business, work sucks even more.

Win the lottery.

[cgbg]

Imho the fair and reasonable approach is full (and I mean completely full) company disclosure of its privacy practices.

If they are going to engage PIs to follow you around if they suspect you are leaking secrets to a competitor or are a whistleblower they should be required to disclose that is their practice.

If they don't disclose and _then_ fire you imho that would be grounds for a wrongful termination suit.

In the case of government contractors this would make their life unpleasant since they are not allowed to persecute whistleblowers but do have a right to protect company secrets. They should disclose their policies in such difficult circumstances, and stick to those policies.

[Cringing Negativism Network]

I expect privacy only in the restroom.

-

LOL. I’m pretty comfortable about that. But there have been a couple times I’ve glanced up at the vent grates, and just wondered...

I myself, don’t even presume the restroom is private.

[StolarStorm]

Well, luckily most managers are smart enough to bend the "rules" for employees that are overworked. But then, there are always those idiots who would rather nitpick about something minor like a private email to one's wife, and neglect to consider that the employee has been at the office for 70 hours.

And really that's the key to my whole arguement. The "stupid" managers don't own the company either, yet they make decisions that can negatively hurt the company (like harassing a top performer over something petty... and thus drive them away). Large companies are full of backstabbers and idiots who over enforce rules or twist tules to the detriment of the shareholders, and perhaps to their own personal benefit like getting rid of a rival.

Rules can be abused both ways, in the gross violation of a rule and the absurd enforcement of a rule.

Now I feel differently about a privately owned business. I have no problem with them making any "rule" they like. If a private business owner is dumb enough to harass his best employees because they email their wives occasionally, then he will pay for that anyway. His best employees will move on, and he/she will go out of business. Corps are different obviously as the dumb managers don't have as much at stake by making bad calls.

[AdamSelene235]

It has gone too far. With many salary employees our personal lives are very intertwined with our work lives. I work from home all the time to assist my employer when needed... I think that justifies some amount of privacy while in the office as well.

Unless you have that privacy guarantee in writing, all you have done is sold the company all of your time and all of your privacy at a very low price.

Why do you think the government will stand up for people who are probably unwilling to stand up for themselves?

[JoanVarga]

Restroom probably isn’t either. But anyone who finds such bodily functions fascinating will likely be caught sooner rather than later. I hope.

But if I think too much about all the ways my personal sovereignty can be violated in a day, I won’t leave the house.

So, I just make sure to keep my conceal-carry permit up-to-date.

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

There is no such thing as a “private email” from a company email account.

It wasn't a private company account, it was his personal Gmail account (as in Google, not @boeing.com). To get in, they had to steal his password or hack the system. I'm reasonably sure that's not legal.

[StolarStorm]

Oh, I do stand up for myself. I left a former employer because they abused my personal time to a large extent. Most of my comments here reflect my FORMER employer not my current one. And my current manager knows that I will walk if I get grief over petty garbage (like using the internet to buy a present during a massive personal time consuming project) like my former employer did.

That said, employees shouldn't have to leave an employer over silly things, losing pension benefits and seniority. Managers in corporations should have some restrictions on how they treat their employees. Remember, they don't own the company, countless shareholders do. Thus, I believe new privacy rights legislation is a reasonable desire.

[Cringing Negativism Network]

If I get too concerned about possibly being watched by cameras, I’ve got a back-up plan.

I’m moving to England.

[DemEater]

“The way we work has changed. And privacy laws need to be changed to accommodate it.”

Or you can just get a new job or work for yourself.

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

You do not have a right to privacy in your cubicle.

This isn't about cubicle privacy. This is about being followed around town, having your personal e-mail hacked into, and people watching your house. I understand the work e-mail and work computer monitoring. Where I have a problem is monitoring personal computer use, personal e-mail use, and following people around off company property. Knowing this, I'll never work for Boeing.

[JoanVarga]

“Moving to England.”

Bwahahaha!!!

[StolarStorm]

Yes, but "buyer" beware. Since companies don't explicitly spell out how they invade your privacy its a little hard to decided which firm to work for. I agree with the other poster who said that employers should be required to spell out exactly how they spy on their employees, and this should be before someone accepts a position with them.

As for work for myself... I've done that and hope to do it again. I'm not in the position to do so right now due to the inability to get private insurance due to my wife having had cancer. So I'm kind of in a bind.

[Regulator]

You know, Verizon, the company that recently argued in front of SCOTUS that conducting warrant less surveillance on customers on the behalf of the US government was the intent of the 1st Amendment

I hadn't heard that, but of course, these days, I completely believe it....

[brushcop]

What you say is true however, we find that friends are spending a LOT of time at their workplace surfing for “cutsie” FWDs to send to their block email friends. Very annoying. I can only imagine how much inefficiency this causes, plus the waste of money on salaries that are paid for what?

There is a friend of my wife constantly sending that stuff and with our ancient ISP we delete them upfront without reading (don’t have the time) by going to the ISP website and ambushing the FWDs. I remarked that she sure had lots of time on her hands being retired and I was told that she’s not retired (we are but have picked up other jobs) but is doing that at work! Pretty bad.

[liberty_lvr]

You're right - you never will work for Boeing. Trust me, they don't want you anyway. Interesting how you accept without question the unsubstantiated claims of a neo-socialist writing yet another tiresome anti-corporate hatchet-job article. All because you were lulled into the perception that somehow people's "rights" were being trampled upon by nasty big business.

Until you spend some time off your @ss actually working for the company in question, instead of living your life through a computer website, what you think or have to say is just so much wasted electrons.

This particular company, and its over 255,000 employees world-wide have accomplished amazing feats, changing the world as we know it. But no benefit of the doubt for them, though, eh?

Think about that the next time you climb on an airliner and safely travel the breadth of the country in less than half a day, or think about it the next time you hear of a Super Hornet or Strike Eagle precisely placing a JDAM up some terrorist's @ss.

Companies like this don't need people who sit around all day worried about their "privacy" or their "rights". We need people who can actually accomplish something beside make snap judgments that conveniently fit their class warfare-based world view.