Slanders Unworthy of a Gentleman: A Base Attack on Wayne Grudem and Mitt Romney

The Scriptorum Daily, Torrey Honors Institue ^ | 11/03/07 | John Mark Reynolds

[Petronski]

It was all deleted by management, as well it should be.

[redgirlinabluestate]

LOL. Ron Paul -- the King of Return Spam -- I like that. Well, thank you for all the advice, but we have actually done many of the things you've suggested already. But keep the good ideas coming!

A few examples:

Here

here (more than $44!)

here

here

here

and here.

[George W. Bush]

LOL. Ron Paul -- the King of Return Spam

It is funny. But it is perfect for us. We have a very irascible group of people who just hate spam. So spamming them back to help your candidate is very motivating. And you're forcing the spammers to spend postage for you to spam their employees. So, of course, you really want to reverse-spam only companies you dislike.

And the campaign has nothing to do with it. The grassroots came up with this one because bunches of them bought these RP stamps. And they want to stamp everything in sight. LOL. If they get too carried away, the campaign will ask them to stop. And they will.

It's very funny, very much in keeping with the 'on edge' types among the young people, very popular with some of the older ladies who have complained about spam in their mailboxes for years.

[George W. Bush]

Here's an interesting one for Mitt that someone started.

You guys need to pile on and push for your guy. Drive up those donations, especially from small donors.

www.december7thformitt.com

And "Satisfy Me" by Elvis is a fun theme song for that site.

[MHGinTN]

Is this ridicule your testament that you don’t believe in Satan nor the Bible teaching of the end times? Or are you just professional asses/mules with no religious faith so you ridicule freely?

[George W. Bush]

Is this ridicule your testament that you don’t believe in Satan nor the Bible teaching of the end times?

Of course I believe in Satan. And I don't (ignorantly) refer to him as Lucifer either, something a lot of the Left Behinders believe in, largely as a result of the influence of the Scofield bible a century back.

My view of the apocalyptic is that I am just fine with the fulfillment of the Father's plan. Being a Calvinist, I have no objections at all as to His decision over how to wrap up the present age and fulfill His eternal will.

Or are you just professional asses/mules with no religious faith so you ridicule freely?

Oh, so it must be one or the other?

Actually, I have pretty pronounced religious views with thousands, probably tens of thousands, of long and detailed posts on theology on this very forum. Generally, Calvinistic and Baptist if you're interested in my theological bent and "denomination".

Is this the part where you explain to me why "the power of Christ compels you" to be a religious bigot at the ballot box even though the Constitution forbids our legislatures from establishing a religious test for public office?

[MHGinTN]

So you are a professional ass in posting behavior, claiming Calvinist urges for sauntering rights. Glad we got that clarified. And I shall decide whom to vote for on my own private counsel, which you seem to think ought not be allowed if it means not voting for the politician you prefer. You use the ‘bigot’ term with such ease, it is difficult to take anything you post with serious contemplation. But of course, your ego is sufficient to maintain your aires. And for the record, I didn’t even ask about your denomination or your religious affiliation, I merely inquired regarding your supercilious references to evil. I shall step back up on the porch and not obstruct your pompous braying any further.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

That’s funny :-)

[L.N. Smithee]

It was all deleted by management, as well it should be.

How conveeeenient. Do you have examples of outraged responses to the offending posts? Those are typically not deleted.

[George W. Bush]

So you are a professional ass in posting behavior, claiming Calvinist urges for sauntering rights.

Yes. My writings are predestined by God Himself from the foundations of the world. Your writings may, of course, be from another source.

And I shall decide whom to vote for on my own private counsel, which you seem to think ought not be allowed if it means not voting for the politician you prefer.

Huh? I am a Ron Paul supporter. I vote in a very late primary which means that if Dr. Paul can't get the nomination, I'll be looking at Fred or Mitt, whichever one is most likely to win my state's delegates and defeat the transsexual mayor of New York City. I try to be a practical Republican voter.

You should be ashamed of your plan to write your ballot with the ink of religious bigotry. I think you are a bad American.

[George W. Bush]

That’s funny :-)

Keep reading. I was on a roll. Wait until you get to my first ever "The power of Christ compels you" post. LOL.

Say, did you catch that interview where Ron Paul was asked pointedly about Mitt's Mormonism and whether he was a "flipflopper" on the pro-life question? Now, that was a very interesting answer. I'm considering posting a thread on it. I think the reporter was trolling for controversy but I'm not quite sure.

[MHGinTN]

Bwahahaha, now that was funny. Thanks!

[George W. Bush]

Glad to oblige.

[L.N. Smithee]

Is this ridicule your testament that you don’t believe in Satan nor the Bible teaching of the end times?

No. I believe Satan is real. I don't scoff at "end times" prophecy. What I don't believe is your hysterical post:

---

If the religion is a total fabricationa nd the candidate running for the highest power office in America is a high-offcie holding member of that false religion, it matters. To get Romney to act in some fashion the antichrist wants carried out would be a simple matter of making a showy visit to the current 'prophet/revelator' of Mormonism and perhaps a quicky to Mittster, and wham, you have the antichrist directing a false prophet and achieving world domination via a 'nice, claencut family man Mormon.'

---

I don't like to discuss religion online (although I've made that mistake occasionally) because more often than not, discussions turn infinitely more times nastier than they would have if conducted face to face. But when addressing baseless attacks on Romney in terms of Mormonism, I am compelled to say that I am NOT and never have been a Mormon.

So I will ask you the very same question I asked aMPU: What exactly is it that YOU fear might happen if this country elects a Mormon President? Can YOU even articulate it? And when I say "might happen," I mean that we will all be able to SEE, not "quicky" visits from the Antichrist.

[MHGinTN]

You want to ignore the possibility of Mitt being lead by his religion's 'prophet', okay. You want to ignore the false 'change of heart' regarding Life issues, okay. If you want to spin Mitt's liberal history in order to be elected Governor of Massatwosh!ts, okay. Let's look at what happened when the policy of abortion was permitted by government and court edicts and then institutionalized by becoming a 'useful' option for society. It will be instructive for how evil inveigles a society.

Average voting democrats cannot tell abortion is a wrong choice because they have been taught there are 'reasonable exceptions'! A majority of Americans think it is necessary as an adjunct for this nation, and a good thing to have as a backup for 'understandable flawed human behavior'. Abortion has become something a percentage of people in this nation rely upon as a means to absolve them from behavior choices, not to mention the escape it offers to sexual abusers. Government money extorted from taxpayers funds this heinous 'institution' of methodically slaughtering more than a million alive unborn Americans each year! One of the two major political parties depends upon protecting this evil in order to empower their voting potentials, and the other political party uses the issue to wedge voters to the ballot boxes rather than fighting this evil tooth and nail to signioficantly hinder the casual use of it!

Mormonism is a cult look-alike of Christinaity. If just being 'good people' could usher one into God's Heaven (devout Buddhists and Baha'is are every bit as good in their behavior as Mormons), Christ's death and resurrection would be a sideline rather than the most important event in human History.

The cross and resurrection are not something which adds salvation 'after all that you can do' to earn God's Grace. The God Who created the universe and all that is therein did not evolve from a man who became exalted by his efforts to be good. Jesus is not a created being, He is God-Man and has been God from the beginning of the universe and before.

Making one of the Mormonism cult the most powerful man in this nation and having him seat numerous fellow Mormons in high offices and receiving political favors for four or eight years will have the effect of lending credulity to the heresies of Mormonism. You can deny that such will occur, but if you do deny it then I would submit you have a poor understanding of how evil, true insidious evil inveigles a society.

Mormons will plead with us to look at their fruits to decide if they are Christians. These Mormons don't even comprehend what 'the fruit' of the spirit is supposed to accomplish in the individual under Christ's leadership, NOT for outward appearances. So the thing they are asking you to do in looking at their behaviors is to lose the essence of what it means to be born again!

Salvation comes to the human spirit by awakening to the need for His deliverance from your fallen self. When that salvation happens you are born into His family, and His Spirit takes up residence in your human spirit where God always intended to dwell among humankind. The remainder of the life in Christ is lived with His Spirit transforming the believer, the delivered, the faither.

Now, in the interest of promoting a man for election, Mormons are more than willing to denigrate the Church Fathers, diminish Whom God is and has always been, diminish Whom Jesus IS, and push their heresies as truth to unsuspecting seekers. If you cannot envision how that will accelerate if Romney the Mormon Bishop and high priest becomes President then I have wasted time and fingers writing this post to you and I suspect you don't give a damn what happens to the souls of men so long as your chosen candidate gets the position.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Say, did you catch that interview where Ron Paul was asked pointedly about Mitt's Mormonism and whether he was a "flipflopper" on the pro-life question? Now, that was a very interesting answer.

No, what did he say?

[George W. Bush]

I'm so glad you asked! LOL.

---

FF: You have delivered over 4,000 babies, and you have a 100 percent pro-life voting record. People know where you stand. How do you view Mitt Romney's recent switch or "conversion" on the abortion issue? Do you find that credible?

RP: I don't have a strong judgmental view on that - I always want to give people the benefit of the doubt. I just wonder if he might not be closer to his roots now than he was before, and he was more hypocritical when he was running as a liberal. I think of Mormons as being conservative people, very strong right-to-life and family-oriented. They have a very good reputation. I give him the benefit of the doubt, but I think the flip-flopping is a real issue - one that people should be responsible for. But I think it will be sad that if he loses traction, it's not because of his positions but because he has a certain, particular religious view. I don't like that at all, no matter who it is. I'd like to see people oppose him because he won't change our foreign policy of militancy, and he's willing to send more kids off to die, and he doesn't understand why we're being attacked. That to me is a real reason, not because he's a Mormon.

---

Well, I thought it was a good answer though he took a few fair punches at Mitt on the war issue. I'll mention that Mitt has taken a few at RP as well. Clearly, Ron Paul doesn't like a religious test for public office. He knows his Constitution. Some people probably think that's corny or quaint but the reason some of us have supported him for so long is because of the principles he upholds.

Naturally, I don't expect to "convert" you. I just thought it was interesting and I was proud of my guy for taking the high road in politics.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

LN,

Two things.

First, it is customary on FR to ping someone when you
refer to them by name.

Second, you ask, “What exactly is it that YOU fear might
happen if this country elects a Mormon President?”

That was never my personal concern. It isn’t now. I simply
have a personal conviction that I do not wish to be involved
in advancing any member of a cult to the world’s highest
office. To me, this legitimizes whichever cult that person
belongs to. In this case, mormonism. To me, it is a choice
between two evils - Hillary and the devastation she would
bring, or the devastation that could result in the eternal
destiny of those who are misled into a cult, based on the
elevated attention and legitimacy the Presidency would bring.

I realize not every Christian will follow suit. Many will
fear Hillary so much they will gladly pull the lever or
punch out a chad for Mitt. Their call. Their conscience. I
cannot.

I say all that to communicate it is not for the USA I fear
(which is your focus), if Mitt is elected. For me, that is
not the issue at all... though I don’t see a McKinnsey
Presidency benefiting the nation.

Best,
ampu

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

No, I agree. It was a good answer; fair and RP stuck to the issues.

[George W. Bush]

Did you catch the McCain appearance on Hardball from Friday? He had his 95-year-old mother there. She is blunt and was dressing down Romney as a one-term governor and that he didn't deserve much credit for the SLC Olympics because he's a Mormon and it was Mormons that messed it up to begin with. McCain had to disavow her a bit. Then after the commercial break, he dragged it up again and completely repudiated the idea of a religious test for office or that it was legitimate for anyone to vote down Mitt on Mormonism. I think his handlers spoke to him during the commercial but it is pretty much in keeping with McCain's sense of fair play, however misguided his CFR legislation was.

So McCain gets marks for decency too, despite some FReepers who can't bear to say anything nice about him.