Posted on 09/30/2007 10:01:27 AM PDT by wagglebee
Are you suggesting that Christ didn't have dignity at the Crucifixion, or any of the other thousands of Christian martyrs?
Again, many cannot differentiate between APPEARING dignified and possessing dignity. The Clintons on occasion APPEAR dignified, you will NEVER convince me that they have dignity.
Yeah, and what about when the demons came and dragged her down to eternal hell one minute after she died?
One Minute After You Die (Paperback)
by Erwin Lutzer (Author)
“what seemed like such a mediocre life”
I think it is unfair to characterize her life as mediocre, or unremarkeable. You don’t know anything about her, and it sounds like she had a loving family and many friends, hardly mediocre. All I really hope to accomplish is to raise my children, and grow old with my wife. I don’t consider that mediocre or unremarkeable. That is all that is really important. Not everyone has olympic medals or a nobel prize.
I don’t agree with her choice, although I do understand it. Judging her entire life is a bit unfair.
And for an online account of what it’s really like for some after their deaths, go to
http://spiritlessons.com/Mary_K_Baxter_A_Divine_Revelation_of_Hell.htm
Advocate
Death doesn’t have to mean suffering. In the event of a terminal illness, we each should have the right to choose the time and manner of our death when the course is prolonged or agonized.
The Compassion & Choices legal advocacy team, led by Director of Legal Affairs Kathryn Tucker, ensures and defends your right to comprehensive end-of-life care at the bedside and all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.
We set legal precedent in California that failure to treat a terminally ill patient’s pain can constitute elder abuse and defeated the Bush administration challenge to Oregon’s Death with Dignity Act.
Ms. Tucker
practiced law with the Seattle based law firm Perkins Coie prior to moving
to C & C; she remains Counsel with the firm. She is Adjunct Professor of
Law at the University of Washington School of Law and Seattle
University School of Law, teaching in the areas of health law and
constitutional law.
Ms. Tucker is listed in the prestigious directory Who’s Who in American
Law, was recognized as 1996 Lawyer of the Year, Runner-Up, by the
National Law Journal, and as one of the nation’s Outstanding Young
Lawyers by the American Bar Association in 1995.
Physician Aid in Dying: A Humane Option, A Constitutionally
Protected Choice, 18 Seattle University Law Review 495 (1995)
The saddest part was that her brother could only come up with a POEM and not a PRAYER. Very sad state of things.
From Chapter Two
Jesus and I stepped from the tunnel onto a path with wide swaths of land on each side of it. There were pits of fire everywhere as far as the eye could see. The pits were four feet across and three feet deep and shaped like a bowl. Jesus said, “There are many pits like this in the left leg of hell. Come, I will show you some of them.”
I stood beside Jesus on the path and looked into one of the pits. Brimstone was embedded in the side of the pit and glowed red like hot coals of fire. In the center of the pit was a lost soul who had died and gone to hell. Fire began at the bottom of the pit, swept upward and clothed the lost soul in flames. In a moment the fire would die down to embers, then with a rushing sound would sweep back over the tormented soul in the pit.
I looked and saw that the lost soul in the pit was caged inside a skeleton form. “My Lord,” I cried at the sight, “Can’t you let them out?” How awful was the sight! I thought, This could be me. I said, “Lord, how sad it is to see and know that a living soul is in there.”
I heard a cry from the center of the first pit. I saw a soul in the form of a skeleton, crying, “Jesus, have mercy!”
“O, Lord!” I said. It was the voice of a woman. I looked at her and wanted to pull her out of the fire. The sight of her broke my heart.
The skeleton form of a woman with a dirty-grey mist inside was talking to Jesus. In shock, I listened to her. Decayed flesh hung by shreds from her bones, and, as it burned, it fell off into the bottom of the pit. Where her eyes had once been were now only empty sockets. She had no hair.
The fire started at her feet in small flames and grew as it climbed up and over her body. The woman seemed to be constantly burning, even when the flames were only embers. From deep down inside her came cries and groans of despair, “Lord, Lord, I want out of here!”
She kept reaching out to Jesus. I looked at Jesus, and there was great sorrow on His face. Jesus said to me, “My child, you are here with Me to let the world know that sin results in death, that hell is real.
I looked at the woman again, and worms were crawling out of the bones of her skeleton. They were not harmed by the fire. Jesus said, “She knows and feels those worms inside.”
“God, have mercy!” I cried as the fire reached its peak and the horrible burning started all over again. Great cries and deep sobs shook the form of this woman-soul. She was lost. There was no way out. “Jesus, why is she here?” I said in a small voice, for I was very scared.
Jesus said, “Come.”
The path we were on was a circuitous one, twisting in and out between these pits of fire as far as I could see. The cries of the living dead, mixed with moans and hideous screams, came to my ears from all directions. There were no quiet times in hell. The smell of dead and decaying flesh hung thickly in the air.
We came to the next pit. Inside this pit, which was the same size as the other one, was another skeleton form. A man’s voice cried from the pit, saying, “Lord, have mercy on me!” Only when they spoke could I tell whether the soul was a man or woman.
Great wailing sobs came from this man. “I’m so sorry, Jesus. Forgive me. Take me out of here. I have been in this place of torment for years. I beg You, let me out!” Great sobs shook his skeletal frame as he begged, “Please, Jesus, let me out!” I looked at Jesus and saw that He too was crying.
“Lord Jesus,” the man cried out from the burning pit, “haven’t I suffered enough for my sins? It has been forty years since my death.”
Jesus said, “It is written, The just shall live by faith!’ All mockers and unbelievers shall have their part in the lake of fire. You would not believe the truth. Many times My people were sent to you to show you the way, but you would not listen to them. You laughed at them and refused the gospel. Even though I died on a cross for you, you mocked Me and would not repent of your sins. My Father gave you many opportunities to be saved. If only you had listened!” Jesus wept.
“I know, Lord, I know!” the man cried. “But I repent now.”
“It is too late,” said Jesus. “Judgment is set.”
The man continued, “Lord, some of my people are coming here, for they also will not repent. Please, Lord, let me go tell them that they must repent of their sins while they are still on earth. I do not want them to come here.”
Jesus said, “They have preachers, teachers, elders-all ministering the gospel. They will tell them. They also have the advantages of the modern communications systems and many other ways to learn of Me. I sent workers to them that they might believe and be saved. If they will not believe when they hear the gospel, neither will they be persuaded though one rises from the dead.”
At this, the man became very angry and began to curse. Evil, blasphemous words came from him. I looked on in horror as the flames rose up and his dead, decaying flesh began to burn and fall off. Inside this dead shell of a man, I saw his soul. It looked like a dirty-gray mist, and it filled the inside of his skeleton.
I turned to Jesus and cried, “Lord, how horrible!”
Jesus said, “Hell is real; the judgment is real. I love them so, My child. This is only the beginning of the frightful things I have to show you. There is much more to come. Tell the world for Me that hell is real, that men and women must repent of their sins. Come, follow Me. We must go on.”
In the next pit was a very small-framed woman who looked to be about eighty years old. I can’t say how I knew her age, but I did. The skin was removed from her bones by the continual flame, and only the bones remained with a dirty-mist soul inside. I watched as the fire burned her. Soon there were only the bones and the worms crawling inside, which the fire could not burn.
“Lord, how terrible!” I cried. “I don’t know if I can go on, for this is awful beyond belief.” As far as my eyes could see, souls were burning in pits of fire.
“My child, this is why you are here,” Jesus answered. “You must know and tell the truth about hell. Heaven is real! Hell is real! Come, we must go on.”
I looked back at the woman. Her cries were so sad. As I watched her, she put her bony hands together, as if in prayer. I couldn’t help crying. I was in a spirit form, and I was crying. I knew that people in hell felt all these things, too.
Jesus knew my thoughts. “Yes, child,” He said, “they do. When people come here, they have the same feelings and thoughts as when they were on earth. They remember their families and friends and all the times they had a chance to repent but refused to do so. Memory is always with them. If only they had believed the gospel and repented before it was too late.”
I looked at the old woman once again, and this time I noticed that she had only one leg, and there seemed to be holes drilled in her hip bones. “What are these, Jesus?” I asked.
He said, “Child, while she was on earth, she had cancer and was in much pain. Surgery was done to save her life. She lay a bitter old woman for many years. Many of My people came to pray for her and to tell her I could heal her. She said, ‘God did this to me,’ and she would not repent and believe the gospel. She even knew Me once, but in time she came to hate Me. She said she did not need God and did not want Me to heal her. Yet I pleaded with her, still wanting to help her, wanting to heal and to bless her. She turned her back on Me and cursed Me. She said she did not want Me. My spirit pleaded with her. Even after she had turned her back on Me, I still tried to draw her by My spirit, but she would not listen. At last she died and came here.”
The old woman cried out to Jesus, “Lord Jesus, please forgive me now. I’m sorry that I didn’t repent while I was on earth.” With great sobs she cried out to Jesus, “If only I had repented before it was too late! Lord, help me out of here. I will serve You. I will be good. Haven’t I suffered enough? Why did I wait until too late? Oh, why did I wait until Your Spirit quit striving with me?”
Jesus said to her, “You had chance after chance to repent and serve Me.” Sadness was written all over Jesus’ face as we walked away.
The creator surely provided mankind with the capability of rational thought; she is as perfect a proof of that as there is.
And to those who say the doc's are right when they say, "First, do no harm.", who is to say where the greater harm lies - in life or death?
In this case, the patient knew and made the perfect decision! Way to go, Lovelle,....way to go!
Christ did not die with dignity...as was His choosing and His purpose. He chose to allow himself to be humiliated in front of the world and take on the suffering of mankind....... so WE wouldn't have to. That was His gift.
The Clintons have the "appearance" of many things......but what do they have to do with this topic?
No Christ died in an undignified way with more dignity than any of us could ever imagine.
“My oldest grandchild is 12 but I intend to dance at their weddings..”
How nice for you. You seem to have missed the point that this woman was dying, sooner rather than later. I am sure that she had many things that she wanted to do too, but won’t have a chance. Fighting has nothing to do with it,she was going to die in the very near future, even if it was left up to God.
End stage cancer can be painful and ugly, especially lung cancer, and I would find anyone who wasn’t scared of facing it to be disingenuous. I would be, and as much as I would like to believe I have the courage to face it, I am not sure. I won’t condemn those that don’t as a coward.
I will recognize that only God should end a life. I will also recognize that she had two options, bad and worse, and try to understand that we all have weakness, yet God loves us anyway.
She wore a blue sweat suit over a “Cancer Fighter” T-shirt.
Perhaps the shirt should have said “I Surrender.”
My comments were directed toward those who can make the choice to die with palliative care in a dignified manner....so they don't have to suffer. That's all.
Well then to be clear, do you support euthanasia/assisted suicide or not?
I thought I’d made it clear from my very first post that I do not approve of assisted suicide. I was promoting hospice care which is using palliative treatments with “comfort drugs”... so that a dying person does not suffer greatly...allowing them to have a quality in what life they have left ...in a dignified manner...with loved ones at their side.
Thank you for clearing that up, I couldn’t agree more (as long as it is true hospice care and not the ones that seem to be trending toward euthanasia through dehydration and starvation).
Not to take away from your work, but it sound like a bunch of self-esteem-pop-psychobabble to me.
All of us have a "direct line to God," in the form of divine revelation and/or natural law. It's only modern relativists who pretend that God's will is an unknowable mystery so we can just do anything we please.
So... you really didn’t want clarification...... only a platform from which to lob the missiles. Enjoy! *chuckle*
And why not?? She was dying anyway.
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