Posted on 09/17/2007 11:37:32 PM PDT by neverdem
Let’s start with your repeated reference to the “IBC” - Instant Background Check. Anything that can take up to 5 days to act on is hardly “instant”, so lose the disingenuous moniker.
The feds do. NICS is initiated from the "yellow form", which must be filled out in person at the dealer's shop.
Yeah RARE. You're the one claiming errors are common and the check most often takes more than 2mins. You provide the stats to back up your claim.
"(B) explain since when does suppression of Constitutional rights depend on how many people suffer?"
The IBC is not a violation of Constitutional rights. Prohibited persons do not have a Constitutional right to a gun and the background check is near 100% effective in keeping them out of the legitimate market. Suffer? It normally amounts to no more than a 2 min wait.
"Some of the false positives come from the SSN being similar (but not exact). A week or so ago someone on FR was complaining about suffering from that."
BS.
"And the business in question was the most popular in the region. It just was far enough into the boonies, and the NICS delays frequent enough, that people didn’t want to drive 100 miles a second time just to pick up something they should have been able to pick up the first time."
No customer base.
"You’re awfuly defensive of something that restricts the law-abiding from lawfully buying lawful products. Why?"
Get this straight. There is no restriction. It's a 2 min inconvenience most of the time. In other cases, the person has records that need to be looked at in person. You don't have a constitutional right not to be inconvenienced by a program that keeps guns from being sold to dangerous people in the legitimate market. It also pulls the rug out from uner the grabber's claims regarding their bogus lawsuits.
"Let’s start with your repeated reference to the “IBC” - Instant Background Check. Anything that can take up to 5 days to act on is hardly “instant”,
Looks like you don't know what you're talking about. It's 3 days max when they have to go over the records manually, otherwise it's ~2mins.
" so lose the disingenuous moniker."
Go to hell!
From the NRA:
Once a dealer and buyer are prepared to conclude a transfer, a retailer who does NICS checks by contacting the FBI system directly by phone will do the following:
1) Call a NICS operator by toll-free number and confirm his identity with his FFL number and dealer-selected password.
2) Provide the operator with the name, date-of-birth, sex and race of the potential buyer and the type of transfer--handgun or long gun. A buyer with a common name may, at his option, provide his Social Security number to help speed the check.
3) The system will check the data against its database of prohibited persons. If there is no "hit," the sale will be approved. The system will assign a NICS Transaction Number (NTN) to the approval. The dealer will log the NTN on the form 4473, and the transfer will proceed.
4) Partially completed forms 4473, where a proposed sale has been denied, will be required to be retained by the FFL per BATF regulations.
5) When a "hit" occurs, the dealer will receive instruction to delay the transaction. A "delay" response indicates that the check turned up information that requires further review by an analyst, who will contact the dealer by return call "within a couple of hours," the FBI says. While the law provides three business days for the FBI to respond, the FBI anticipates that virtually every delay will be handled within a day. If records require further investigation, the FBI may take up to three days to issue either a proceed or a denial. There will be an appeals process for purchasers who feel they were denied in error, and dealers will be furnished with forms for this process.
I don't really give a fig about "intent", I care about results and effects. It was sold as a means to keep guns out of the hands of "dangerous people", not just keep them "from buying guns in the legitimate market" but of course it can't do that, since those with criminal intent will get guns outside of the "legitimate" market, necessitating calls to restrict the "legitimate market" still more, just as the Political whores in New Jersey are doing right now, calling for adjoining states to pass restrictive laws, or have the feds do it for them, since their own laws have done nothing to reduce the numbers of their people killing each other, not that they really care about the little people getting killed, but it makes a good campaign issue.
Besides private sales are legitimate, so far anyway, and no check is required in those cases.
The only real function of the background check is create more criminals. The only thing it really accomplishes is to harras the otherwise law abiding.
Oh, and I'm still waiting for your source/link to information on your notions of "attainder".
"It was sold as a means to keep guns out of the hands of "dangerous people"...
In the legitimate market... To that end, it is almost 100% effective. The rest of the run on sentence is irrelevant, just as the faulty logic of the grabbers you referred to is.
"private sales are legitimate"
Private sales are not and can not be done as a business operation. They are only legitimate insofar as they are limited sales of one's personal property.
"The only real function of the background check is create more criminals. "
BS.
"Oh, and I'm still waiting for your source/link to information on your notions of "attainder"."
I gave the results of my studies and examples, such as the legislature's selective restrictions on felon's right to vote, hold positions of fiduciary responsibility, whatever, all of which the court's have upheld.
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