LOL!
Posted on 09/14/2007 5:04:52 AM PDT by Abathar
Breed-specific legislation is opposed by the AKC, the American Veterinary Medical Association, the National Animal Control Association, the ASPCA, and a host of national animal welfare organizations that have studied the issue and recognize that targeting breeds simply does not work.
In some instances, breed-specific laws have been overturned on constitutional grounds. Because proper identification of what dogs would be included is difficult or impossible, the law may be deemed unconstitutionally vague. It may also be found to involve the taking of property without due process.
Same can be said of people who refuse to acknowledge the danger of a breed bred to kill.
Anyone who depends on the perfect environment, the perfect owners, the perfect training, the perfect yada, yada, yada, to raise a dog in an attempt to overcome its natural instincts is foolish beyond belief. How many times do you hear *But he’d never hurt a flea, He’s so gentle. He never acted this way before.”? Way too often in these attack stories.
I’ve never seen training completely eliminate from a dog its instincts and killing is an instinct for these dogs. One day it’s going to fail, and it’s not worth the consequences.
When I lived in NJ as a kid, they had a law that any dog that bit someone three times was put down. It was considered dangerous and uncontrollable. And that was back in the 60’s.
>Anyone who depends on the perfect environment, the perfect owners, the perfect training, the perfect yada, yada, yada, to raise a dog in an attempt to overcome its natural instincts is foolish beyond belief. How many times do you hear *But he’d never hurt a flea, He’s so gentle. He never acted this way before.”? Way too often in these attack stories.<
How many Labrador Retrievers or Lassie Collies are found in urban, gangster, domiciles?
>Anyone who depends on the perfect environment, the perfect owners, the perfect training, the perfect yada, yada, yada, to raise a dog in an attempt to overcome its natural instincts is foolish beyond belief.
How many times do you hear *But he’d never hurt a flea, He’s so gentle. He never acted this way before.”? Way too often in these attack stories.<
Your 2 statements above are in direct opposition to each other. The first paragraph describes a responsible dog owner. May I assume that you think raising a dog, any dog, in a responsible manner is “foolish beyond belief”?
I’m going to presume you meant no such thing, but do you see how illogical that statement of yours makes you look?
Your 2nd paragraph refers to a statement that no person with any knowledge of dogs, or of their behavior, would be likely to make. In the US, 2.4 million people are bitten yearly by dogs. EVERY dog owner has a duty to make reasonably sure his dog is properly restrained, spay/neutered (unless in a breeding or show kennel), socialized and trained, regardless of breed or mix.
You hear this (if you can believe it) in the vast majority of dog attacks by any breed/type.
What do you really expect to hear...
"Well yeah, he's mauled a dozen people before so I'm not really surprised"
I'd be willing to bet that in most cases there has actually been previous questionable behavior that should have served as a warning.
...or the dog was placed in a situation that it had never been in before.
I’ve never seen training completely eliminate from a dog its instincts and killing is an instinct for these dogs. One day it’s going to fail, and it’s not worth the consequences.
And just what is your experience?
Killing is an instinct for all dogs. The sooner we get that understood the sooner
we'll start dealing with the problem an a rational manner
My beagle went on a romp one day in the farmyard and killed every chicken there.
Obviously larger dogs can potentially cause greater damage
but when you're taking about the young or the very old
even smaller dogs are potentially lethal.
Some dogs were bred to be used as hunters, terriers being one of them.
But that aggression should never be directed towards humans
and despite these extremely rare occurrences compared to the total population,
that are reported and sensationalized by the media,
the fact is 'pit bulls' were never bred to kill humans.
They were bred for certain physical characteristics that would make
for an effective fighter...small, agile and for a tenacious (game) mentality.
They would then be tested (goaded into fighting) in the pit...not all of them showed interest in scrapping with other dogs.
It's not something they all 'live for'.
(I've posted an email before about a JRT that attack a friend's Amstaff,
the Amstaff just cried in pain while the owner struggled to get the JR to release)
Aggression towards humans meant immediate culling.
This behavior is an aberration of what a 'pit bull' should be
not a defining characteristic of the breed/type.
If 'they lived to kill' people we would be inundated with deaths
not the relatively few compared to population that we do see.
The facts indicate that "One day it’s going to fail" just isn't the case
for the overwhelmingly vast proportion of dogs.
In virtually every case these problems are not primarily caused by the dogs but by negligent owners.
Just look at this case...pack of loose dogs...receipt for tragedy.
In my neck of the woods we see this happening more often with Husky types
but the results are the same.
Any medium to large size dogs running in a pack is trouble waiting to happen.
Bottom line...
Education and strict enforcement of effective laws with adequate penalties
is the proven way to go about reducing all dog attacks.
>I’ve never seen training completely eliminate from a dog its instincts and killing is an instinct for these dogs. One day it’s going to fail, and it’s not worth the consequences.
And just what is your experience?<
Dang, all those Delta Society© certified dogs running amok, endangering society.
Oh, the humanity!
Sounds good to me. Nothing worse than people that can’t keep their dog in check.
That's about the weakest dodge I've ever seen. You made a statement that you can't back up with facts. Your first reply to me was an ad hominem attack on my personality, and now you try to throw the whole question back to me.
Here was your statement that you can't support.
Any breed of dog that has a tendency to turn even on its own owners like pits do, is not safe to have around.
It really shows the quality of your argument when you have to resort to making things up. But hey, if it adds to the general level of hysteria surrounding pit bulls, it's for a good cause, right?
Between the hysteria, untruths, personal attacks, gleeful postings of people saying that they'd shoot or poison a dog, and of course, the inane "dog of peace" smears, what argument do these folks have? None.
It's unreal that some supposed "conservatives" sound more shrill than DUers when the topic is pit bulls.
Fear, ignorance, and hysteria must be cherished companions for some. This whole debate reminds me of all of the other "should we ban it?" debates where something is demonized in an attmpt to ban it. "Evil" things like firearms, SUVs, and incandescent light bulbs.
My favorite anti pit bull argument is the one where the dog is portrayed as a ticking time bomb which can "snap" and rip your face off. You see, you don't even need facts anymore. You can just present some un-proven and unsupported assertion and run with it.
As far as the whole "ticking time bomb" load of BS, I can remember when the same lie was said of Vietnam Vets for crying out loud.
>Any breed of dog that has a tendency to turn even on its own owners like pits do, is not safe to have around.
It really shows the quality of your argument when you have to resort to making things up. But hey, if it adds to the general level of hysteria surrounding pit bulls, it’s for a good cause, right?<
I’ve been doing a bit of research, and it has occurred to me that a lot of these stories of a dog unexpectedly “turning on” its owner is the well-known phenomenon of an adolescent male dog challenging its owner. This is a phase a certain number of male dogs go through when they begin to jockey for social status.
http://www.kibblesnbits.com/dogcare/article.aspx?i=37
“Junior, a 2 1/2-year-old uncastrated male spaniel, has suddenly become aggressive towards the people in his family. Last night, as the Clark’s 10-year-old son was petting the dog, Junior growled and snapped at him. The week before, Mrs. Clark was hugging the dog and it growled. A month ago, Junior leapt up and bit Mr. Clark as he walked near the dog while it was eating a bone. In another incident, Junior growled at Mrs. Clark when she tried to push him off the bed. He eventually moved but “muttered” when he got down. The Clarks are distraught. They cannot understand why their pet sometimes acts this way. He is a wonderful dog 99% of the time. He solicits attention — paws at them to be petted, licks their faces, begs to play — and is a happy, friendly dog.”
“Dogs reach sexual maturity at puberty, between 6 and 12 months of age, but behavioral maturity is not reached until about 2 to 3 years of age; although an adolescent animal may be capable of reproducing, it has not yet developed all of the behavioral and physical characteristics of an adult; a teenage boy does not present the same image as a 25-year-old, neither does a 7-month-old male dog act like a 4-year-old adult male.
On reaching behavioral maturity, some dogs begin challenging individuals higher in the hierarchy. They may resist or ignore dominant gestures or display dominant behaviors themselves. By doing so, the challenging dog might displace the dominant individual and move to a higher position; on the other hand, the dominant animal might suppress the challenge with even greater aggression. Extreme conflicts develop when both the challenger and ‘established’ senior are equally motivated to prevail. When this occurs, there may be severe fights. Sometimes the only possible resolution is for one animal to leave the group. Occasionally, an animal will assume a lower status for a time and then attempt to gain a higher position.”
“Most dogs assume a neutral or submissive role toward people. They usually greet family members with lowered head, wagging tail, or even a submissive “grin” or “smile.” These signals are similar to the submissive greeting signals that dogs use among themselves. Most dogs defer to people if they are bumped or pushed or if a person takes something away from them.
As some dogs mature, however, they begin to assert themselves and threaten their owners (e.g., by growling, “muttering,” snapping, nipping, or even biting). These challenges may occur in one or more of the following situations: (1) when the dog is disturbed while sleeping or resting, (2) when items (e.g., food or stolen objects such as paper napkins) are taken from the dog, (3) when the dog is pushed, groomed, lifted, hugged, or petted, (4) when the owner forces the pet to sit or lie down by pulling on the dog’s collar or pushing down on its body, or (5) when the dog is threatened or hit. In these situations, the dog’s aggressiveness is an attempt to guard resources or to resist what is interpreted as gestures of dominance because these behaviors are similar to those displayed by dominant dogs. A dog beginning to assert dominance will resist these gestures, yet at other times will still solicit petting and attention.
When a dominance problem is beginning to develop, the dog’s threatening or aggressive behavior may be mild and infrequent. As the dog continues to mature, its aggressive behaviors may become more severe and frequent.”
“It is impossible to test puppies reliably for the likelihood of their showing dominant behavior in adulthood. A young puppy that reacts aggressively to being handled is definitely not a good choice for a pet. On the other hand, nonaggressive, friendly, and even submissive behaviors in a puppy are not a guarantee that it will be nonaggressive when it matures. Remember, dominance aggression in dogs, if it does occur, usually does not begin to develop until the dog is older than 1 year of age.”
Nowhere in the article above is breed mentioned as a cause for this phenomenon. There are dominant and submissive pups in the same litter, and the owners of the submissive pup may never encounter a challenge, while the dominant pup is destined to try and become “leader of the pack”. With the proper, educated response, the dominant dog can become a decent member of his human family.
Good post. Thank you very much for posting it.
LOL!
Is she yours?
Unfortunately, no. I just wanted to have a representative picture of a pit bull puppy. She is adorable, though.
Here are my puppies.
Here's a pic of our new little gal who is the front dog on the dog bed. She loves her squeak toy.
UPDATE
Police continue to probe fatal dog attacks
Authorities said Friday that it's not clear how four American bulldogs escaped from their yard or why they suddenly mauled two Livingston County residents in rural Iosco Township.Police said the owner of the dogs was cooperating, and the case would eventually be turned over to prosecutors to determine if any criminal charges will be filed.
On Thursday afternoon, the bodies of 91-year-old Edward J. Gierlach and 56-year-old Cheryl Harper were found outside Gierlach's home on Crofootcq Road.
State Police investigators from the Brighton post said they now believe four of the 10 dogs they seized Thursday mauled the pair. Police have not found any witnesses to the attacks, said Sgt. Therese Fogarty-Cremonte.
Fogarty-Cremonte said autopsies were being conducted in Ingham County. Meanwhile, detectives were attempting to piece together the events leading to the attacks.
Police found Harper's body about 200 yards from Gierlach's body, which was in his driveway. A woman who answered the phone at the home of Gierlach's son declined to comment Friday.
A resident who lives in the area said Harper took walks daily and often fed some of the 16 horses at neighbor Diane Cockrell's house.
Neighbor Ann Reid identified Cockrell as the owner of the dogs, and said no one in the area was aware she had that many dogs. Reid said she wasn't aware of any previous problems with the dogs.
Cockrell could not be reached Friday. Her driveway is about 50 yards from Gierlach's driveway.
Anne Burns, director of Livingston County Animal Control, said all 10 dogs - seven American bulldogs and three American bulldog mixes - are being held indefinitely as evidence. Police said the four dogs suspected in the attack are American bulldogs.
Burns said the dogs, which average 75-80 pounds, look "like a boxer on stilts" and have a face similar to a boxer - with a strong jaw and muscular body. She said none of the dogs looked like they had been used to fight, and there was no indication that dogs were involved in fights on Cockrell's property.
Burns said she has not yet determined whether the dogs are licensed or have up-to-date shots.
She declined to release photos of the dogs or allow them to be photographed, saying they are considered evidence in an ongoing police investigation.
There goes that excuse. That means that sane people consider these dogs always to be extremely dangerous.
Hysteria demands it, and hysteria is always right.
< /sarc>
What are you even talking about?
The dogs involved in the attack weren't Pit Bulls.
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